mayhaps im just repeating what someone else has already said and said better but [S]:Collide needed to be way smarter than it was
like. i genuinely think hussie wrote the scene and its prior framing around the striders, terezi, vriska, and john and/or roxy, and then tossed in the rest w/o regard to what could reasonably be deemed a satisfying ending to their arcs.
here’s what could have been tighter:
I’m not going to respond to all of this rn cause I need to sleep but it’s making the rounds so I just wanted to say I disagree with every word and feel it misunderstands several key plot elements entirely.
Maybe I’ll go into depth with why tomorrow but if not I will in some form eventually.
Ok nevermind my brain is broken and I can’t friggin sleep so I guess I’m doing this now.
I’m going to respond to these in order from least effort to counter to most, on my end.
Terezi: Like the entire last part of [S] Credits was nothing but buildup for future content, and that includes Terezi literally flying around to track Vriska. Come on. Obviously the story isn’t over there.
Also, Terezi did play a role in strategy. She says so:
TEREZI: 1 KNOW W3 T4LK3D 4 LOT OF STR4T3GY 1N 4DV4NC3, VR1SK4
TEREZI: BUT 1 R34LLY DON’T R3M3MB3R YOU M3NT1ON1NG 4 PL4N TO PROTOTYP3 OUR FR13NDS’ CORPS3S
TEREZI: M1GHT H4V3 B33N N1C3 TO G3T 4 H34DS UP!
TEREZI: UM, NOT TO M4K3 4 B4D PUN, ON 4CCOUNT OF TH3 F4CT TH4T MOST OF TH31R H34DS W3R3 L1T3R4LLY S3V3R3D >:[
Which, yeah, Vriska was obviously keeping stuff from her and being duplicitious and shit, because…Vriska. But…there’s still an allusion to a lot of strategy that they discussed and worked on together offscreen, and Vriska did most of her work on the session offscreen, too!
The endgame battle plans were the end of a long sequence of actions on Vriska’s part that it’s likely Terezi helped orchestrate, and in terms of assigning battle roles, Vriska mostly asked for volunteers for each section–so not exactly much strategizing to do there. Everyone did what they wanted, or had a special job (Jane) or got put on leftovers (Jake and Karkat).
Vriska: I’ll be here for two weeks if I try to write about Vriska seriously in this context, but I will at least try to point to the fact that in an ending that values togetherness and connection with others above all else, Vriska is presented as being about as emotionally disconnected and isolated as Caliborn–maybe a little better, but that’s not saying much.
I’ll just suggest that’s worth thinking about without really trying to offer a rebuttal to the criticisms of her role in the story for now, simply because a serious rebuttal would be way too labor intensive right now.
Jade: Jade has a personal conflict–isolation and loneliness–and it’s resolved now because she finally gets to be with her friends. In terms of the [S] Collide battle, her performance was surprisingly pivotal, actually–and fitting.
There is no other character in the story more defined by their love for the actual game of Sburb. Jade loved Prospit, and she had a blast playing through the game and trying to win it the way it was meant to be won, damn the circumstances.
Her only job in [S] Collide was to keep the dogs busy, and she not only did that, but she also set the stage to invert the paradigm where White must always lose to Black in the thematic game of Sburb–and only she could have done so.
To be honest, I have a whole big essay pretty much finished linking to this subject that I am not quite ready to post but will pretty soon, like within the next couple of days. So I’m dropping this one here for now.
Jane: The idea that Jane has the best reason to resent the Condesce is confusing to me, honestly. I’d love to see some like, meta post or something about it? Because I do not see any canon indication for that.
The Condesce usurped Jane’s will, yes–and that was shitty! It also lasted, from Jane’s perspective, like. A couple of hours. In that time she co-ruled a kingdom, presumably met up with her Dad in Derse, and did a lot of things she’s now ashamed of–like abusing Jake and killing her Roxy.
Before then? The worst The Condesce put Jane through was some death threats and subliminal mind control through ads. Jane had by far the happiest childhood out of all the Alphas–she lives in a living world among people and her life is so normal and happy that the nightmarish circumstances her friends live in are completely unbelievable to her.
Contrast with the others: The Condesce killed Jake’s Grandma and left him stranded on an island filled with monsters he was terrified of. Roxy and Dirk grew up in total isolation in a dystopic, apocalyptic future of her creation.
Roxy, in particular, is bitter at the Condesce. She hates her. She despairs at what the Condesce has done to her life and resents her to the point that she considered giving up her only chance at a future–playing Sburb–just to fuck up the Condesce’s plans out of spite.
And Roxy carried that loathing around with her for a full 16 YEARS! Jane was convinced the Condesce existed when she entered her session, giving her a scant few months to catch up in hate-time. And she doesn’t.
I seriously don’t remember Jane ever making a single comment about the Condesce–she spends the session stressed and worried about Calliope and her Dad and growing quietly resentful of Jake’s obtuse insensitivity.
Jane’s “arc” in so far as she has one (and oh yeah we’ll get to that) isn’t about the Condesce–it’s about herself and her relationship with her friends. It’s about the ignorance she has about the world and the big, obvious things she misses even about the people she loves, and about trying to learn how to both assert herself and understand others.
Someday I’ll write a full essay in this vein because I have more to say but let’s move on or now.
Karkat: Homestuck practically revolves around the phrase “Everyone Has An Important Job To Do.” In Karkat’s case, it’s relevant here in two ways:
1) Karkat’s real narrative victory isn’t in a fight. It’s in Echidna’s implication that he’s important to the rebuilding of troll society, and in him getting excited about taking on that responsibility.
In all other respects, Karkat was pretty much on his way towards becoming a happy person. He’s with Dave. He talks about how he thinks his previous ideals about being a warrior were immature and hotheaded, so…yes he is growing out of that stuff.
In his pesterlog with Kanaya, Karkat isn’t that frustrated with being weak. He just wants to do his part, even knowing he is weak.
2) And he does! In fact, Karkat’s win is both more impressive and more important than one might think.
Because nobody else could have beaten Clover. Clover is simply too lucky to be defeated through conventional means–the most anyone can do to harm him is whack him with a newspaper, and everyone else in Collide was fighting to kill. Clover could’ve proven a dangerous distraction if he was fighting literally anyone else by sheer force of persistence, and that could have proven deadly–so by neutralizing him, Karkat actually was doing something pretty damn valuable.
And Karkat was able to win because of his abilities as a Knight of Blood. He didn’t just tie Clover up–he inspired in Clover a desire for a relationship with Karkat and ergo made him lose his will to win. This makes sense from Clover’s perspective as well as Karkat’s–after all, what luckier outcome could Clover have had come out of a giant showdown than a chance at expanding his dating pool? The dude’s a horndog. Moving on.
Jake: First off, understand that what I’m about to say is not in defense of Vriska. Not only do I not defend her; I think the assertion that the narrative presents Vriska as being in the right is questionable, too.
But Jake flat out doesn’t have any special powers at this point, and he has no narrative reason to. In the GO timeline, it took Aranea hacking his brain to bring his Page powers out of him. In his conversation with Caliborn, Jake sort of implies feeling secure in his friendships is important to bringing those out normally, and at this point in the story Jake hasn’t had a chance to fix things with Dirk, Jane OR Roxy.
For all intents and purposes, in this fight, Jake’s only powers are flight and a bit of immortality. This might cheat Jake out of a narrative victory, yeah, except that…he already got one. We saw Jake deliver Caliborn one of his only definitive defeats in the Masterpiece, single-handedly. And surrounded by his friends! To save Dirk! Who the narrative implies he considers a boyfriend again! So yeah that backs up my friendship point.
The only reason this goes ignored is because of the way the battle is conveyed, but that fight is like…literally the most pivotal plot point in the entire comic? And the Alphas are it’s lynchpin. Also, [S] Credits seems to imply a buildup of some kind to that exact showdown, so it’s possible we’ll see it again in a more direct rendition.
Right. Okay. Those taken care of, let’s take on…the biggie.
*Deep sigh* Please don’t rip my head off, ok? At least hear me out first.
Dave’s line about how they are people, not characters, is wholly and completely narratively justified.
I’ll explain.
Convention is all well and good when you’re telling a conventional story, like an action anime, or a hero’s journey, or even a narrative epic.
Homestuck is none of these things, and it does not pretend to be.
Homestuck has always been very clear about what it is.
Homestuck is a creation myth.
And this is important because creation myths aim to do more than just present a narrative of how the world came to exist. Creation myths also aim to make statements on what the nature of reality is, what the meaning of life is in relation to it, and what the best way to live a life is.
And what’s more, Homestuck is a completely unique kind of creation myth. Because Homestuck explores what reality means in the context of a multiversal system of reality, and in so doing it explores a lot of existential anxieties that exist in our culture and science right now.
Homestuck is a story that assumes all of its reality is a simulation inside a simulation inside a simulation…and includes us, the reader, inside that simulation. The metatextual stuff isn’t just for funsies–it is a direct response to thoughts we have in our society right now, like…our actual scientists supposing all of 3d reality may be a hologram. Or a simulation. Or whatever.
Parallel universes, alternate timelines, ideas like Karma and Reincarnation and the meaning of identity if it’s true that theres all these different worlds with different yous who all act differently and make different choices–Homestuck deals with all of those.
Combine this with the metatextual elements. With the parts where Vriska literally breaks into the narrator prompt and starts talking directly to Hussie and to you. Hell, to the parts where Doc Scratch talks to you in Act 5. You are a part of Homestuck.
And Homestuck does not present itself as a simple story for you to consume. It presents itself as a mirror for our own existence. The implications it makes about the world it’s created are implications it believes apply to our world, as well. Not in the sense that Sburb is literally real, necessarily–but that the systemic metaphor it presents is one that is theoretically applicable to our world.
In other words: Homestuck suggests the reality we exist in and the reality the characters exist in are fundamentally one and the same. Or, at the very least, linked in such a way that they may as well be.
And it implies that not only are it’s character’s people like us, but that all of their potential for growth and transcendence exists within us, as well. Why do you think the mechanisms that grant them power–the Alchemy, the Kernelsprites, the Classpects– are so hyperflexible and practically designed for reader self-insertion?
And yes, the idea of conventional character arcs is–at least in some ways–offered up at the altar in service of that message, and in my view a lot of other seemingly odd writing choices are made in service to similar messages, as well. Vriska’s revival and actions, for example.
But here’s the thing:
Homestuck was never about these characters. It never even pretended to be.
By this I mean: Homestuck treats these characters as people. And it supposes that, because they are people, they make choices. And they exist in a multiverse, where different choices lead to different timelines.
And so in normal reality, in the absence of stable time loops, to follow the stories of any of these characters in an exhaustive sense would just lead us down an infinite number of paths and variations, until we had charted the entire course of their Ultimate Selves.
This is obviously impossible to represent artistically, although I do think there are ways it could have been visually implied better, maybe. But it is absolutely what the comic is going for–it’s the natural conclusion to draw from the combination of Dave’s line and Davepeta’s explanation on the Ultimate Self.
The conclusion to draw here? The comic, by nature of it’s own rules, cannot present a story about any character that Objectively Defines them without cutting into it’s own themes about self-determination and creation, and stripping the characters of their agency.
The only mechanism that allows it to seem like it can do this is an illusion, a trick. It was there from the beginning. And it is the backbone of the story.
It’s the Alpha Timeline.
And the thing is, this didn’t come in at the 11th hour. The implications that this was the case have always been there. Why do you think the Alpha timeline is portrayed as so horrendously cruel and unfair? So pointless and arbitrary?
The story of Homestuck is not about the characters. The story of Homestuck is about the incredibly exhaustive and complicated stable time loop necessary to enable this page: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/ACT6ACT6.php?s=6&p=009342
Caliborn is a Lord of Time, and that means all of causality falls in his favor, enabling his will to do what he desires:
uu: I THINK PART OF MY PERSONAL QUEST. IS TO BECOME AT EASE WITH THE FORCES OF INEVITABILITY.
uu: INEVITABILITY THAT ALL THINGS SHOULD AND WILL FALL IN MY FAVOR. THAT ALL CAUSALITY ANSWERS TO ME. AND THAT ALL OUTCOMES NOT ONLY SERVE ME. BUT CONSIST OF MY BEING.
uu: SO I FEEL THAT. THE MORE I GROW IN POWER.
uu: THE MORE STUFF IT SHOULD TURN OUT I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR.
uu: UP TO AND INCLUDING. EVERYTHING THAT EVER HAPPENS.
uu: EVEN IF IT HAS TO BE.
uu: RETROACTIVELY.
And what Caliborn desires is to become Lord English. He wants to stay exactly as he is and not grow or change or do anything but fight and kill and destroy for all of time. He is a true Yaldabaoth figure, a Demiurge–and as Lord English, the time loops his own creation necessitates demand that whenever any character steps even slightly out of line, they be cut down for it.
That’s why Lord English never directly fights the main characters. He doesn’t need to. His violence and brutality are systemic, inescapable, and invisible. They are Already Here.
And they manifest as the intense temporal limitations that construct the sleight of hand that we, the audience, perceive as the story of Homestuck. This is not a natural existence for these characters–it is not how things Should Be. That’s why even more successful versions of the trolls, who God Tier, get cut down.
It has nothing to do with Skaia. It has to do with Lord English, and him getting what he wants. The boundaries and rules of the game are twisted and broken in service to him from the very beginning.
These “characters” are people who get murdered whenever they miss a beat on their script, and the only reason we see them as existing in a single contained story is because by decree of Lord English’s time loops, every other version of them is subjected to genocide.
By the way, Doc Scratch literally tells us this is what the Alpha timeline leads to as early as Act 5: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005732
`I’ve never much enjoyed navigating the vortices of alternative possibility. The path which alone has my absolute mastery is the alpha timeline, a continuum I define as that which boasts exclusive rights both to my birth and to my death, two circumstantially simultaneous events. Any divergence from this path to my knowing will taper into blackness like rotting roots.`
It’s fine if the kind of story Homestuck is isn’t the kind of story you in particular wanted. But I do hope someday people stop dismissing it as simple bad writing and try to understand the kind of story it’s trying to be. At least judge whether or not it fails on those merits.
I have more to say? As soon as possible? But there is so much to write about with regards to Homestuck, and I only have so much time. I hope somebody finds what’s here interesting, at least.
Flying through Storytelling 