well with that logic, everything could be defined by a lack of void, but I don’t really think thats what we’re supposed to get from it. Thee’s more to it than that, of course. And the reason the aspects tangle more than that is because every aspect is intrinsically related to every aspect in some way. For example, time and doom both deal with death, light and mind both deal with knowledge. that overlap creates situations where multiple aspects work together to create all the nuances of a concept

catchaloststar:

Counterpoint for the Hope/Rage part, though: lack of Hope is hopelessness, not anger. And lack of Rage is apathy, not hope. There’s a pretty clear destruction of Rage early in Act 5 when Eridan is talking to Gamzee. Several things are happening in that conversation, but the most obvious is Eridan’s sudden turnaround on Faygo. He goes from

CA: i dont havve a fuckin faygo you stupid fuck wwhy wwould i keep that disgusting shit on hand

To

What.

It’s just soda. Not great, but not that bad either. What’s the big deal?

We all need to settle down here.

To

FCA: i mean

FCA: its not evven that bad

FCA: its just soda but wwhatevver this isnt the point

If the destruction of Rage was equivalent to the creation of Hope, then that scene could have been presented in a way to make that connection more obvious – convincing Eridan that Faygo might actually taste good, for example. But (aside from Gamzee’s prattering on about miracles) that conversation has nothing to do with Hope. Eridan isn’t given any hope that he might be able to talk to Karkat later (Gamzee clearly isn’t willing to interrupt Jack Noir), nor that Feferi might get back together with him (he resigns himself to the fact that Feferi cares more about Sollux than himself at the moment and that she’s right in doing so). And Eridan walks away from that conversation with neither positive nor negative opinions of Faygo.

Overall, Eridan does not sound like he gained any Hope from the destruction of his Rage.

TC: ArE YoU SuRe i cAn’t hElP A bRoThEr Up iNtO HiS MoThErFuCkIn cHiLl?

CA: i dont knoww

CA: it probably doesnt matter

CA: my feelins seem petty and meaninless noww

CA: she had better things to wworry about than my ovverwwrought bullshit

CA: like the dead guy wwho savved her

CA: so forget it thanks anywway

You could definitely argue that Hope and Rage, as positive and negative emotions respectively, are mutually exclusive. That’s reasonable. I just disagree that the absence of any one aspect defines the presence of any other aspect (except Void).

(I guess you could also argue that hopelessness is a negative emotion that falls under Rage’s domain? Or that Gamzee was really trying to create Hope by encouraging Eridan to believe in miracles, and it’s not classpect theory’s fault that Gamzee is a shitty Maid (or whatever) of Hope? I don’t agree with those, but I think they’d be interesting arguments to make.)

Oh yeah, that’s a pretty good point. Gotta say I’m inclined to say you’ve swayed me on this one–what would you say the destruction of an Aspect brings about, then? Equilibrium or total balance or Void in this case, as well? This is gonna keep me up tonight and i have a flight tomorrow rip me

#i guess i also interpret rage more literally #as anger and fervor and such#not so broadly as to include shame sadness etc #jake crying in a dersite prison isn’t rage

In the interest of clarifying my thoughts on Rage though, I think this lil bit dovetails nicely with this: 

revolutionaryduelist:

i think that escaped my inital point somewhat but it’s far more interesting territory to discuss just how exactly every aspect relates to all the others, more than just its opposite

I agree completely, yeah. I figured Time and Space were standouts re: Void just because they describe physical dimensions, if that makes sense? Like. Destroying Space doesn’t really create Time, and in the Furthest Ring the absence of one means the other is also non-existent. 

But if someone’s Hope is destroyed, it doesn’t typically result in “nothingness”–it results in negative emotions. Either fear, despair, sorrow, or Rage, or so on. All of that stuff is under Rage’s purview, and so it makes sense for me to say the absence of Hope is Rage to a degree, and vice versa. 

Do you see what I mean by Time and Space not necessarily having that relationship? It seems different in a subtle way. 

I guess you could also argue that hopelessness is a negative emotion that falls under Rage’s domain?

In that I would. When I consider the Aspects I always err towards the broadest interpretation possible. No other approach makes sense to me, because the Aspects by definition describe everything that reality could possibly be.

If we don’t ascribe negative emotions to Rage, then what Aspect claims them?

I don’t think Jake crying in a cell is Jake like, inverting into a Rage player or w.e, but I do think it’s telling that the things Jake strives hardest to avoid are all Rage things–the possibility of letting down his friends, or hurting someone’s feelings, or having people be mad at him, etc. 

If you want a unifying thread for all those negative emotions, I would say that negative emotions tend to center us in the raw, definite mundanity of our own suffering, and have us stop considering alternate possibilities or ideas.

In other words, Rage is fundamentally linked to the mundane and the physical, and with the emotions that bring your emotional center into the physical plane as opposed to Hope, which centers itself primarily in the realm of ideas.