me when someone tells me they want to hear about anything related to homestuck
Author: optimisticduelist
blindrapture replied to your post “So do you think that Lord English, Doc Scratch, and Caliborn…”
I’m pretty sure Vriska is just straight-up unadulterated Jesus.
huh. i can think of jesus arguments to varying extents to jake and karkat, but vriska hasn’t occured to me. i’d be interested in hearing your train of thought! i’ve come to understand her as linked to Sophia, myself, since it seems to me the Light aspect is intrinsically tied to her.
When I think of all the different religious and mythos in homestuck I feel that hussie just abused the fact we all know at least a little bit about all these different things and has benefited greatly from it
yeah, probably. which imo is the mark of a terrific writer, and genuine talent.
its the same as his approach to everything else. when hussie references/homages/borrows from other works, he goes hard, mixing all sorts of elements of high and low culture into his own work. AURYN, Game Over basically being a DBZ arc, Dirkjakes resolution resting on all the implied themes of The Princess Bride–storytelling by way of reference and homage is just how hussie do.
Homestuck is a creation myth, so its no surprise it would borrow from other creation myths in service to its own storytelling. I’ve come to view Hussie as sort of a culture remixer as much as a writer or artist. But then, I suppose homestuck is an argument for the idea that great artists steal freely, and great art is often if not always a product of culture remix.
So do you think that Lord English, Doc Scratch, and Caliborn represents more traditional views of the Devil, as in a unredeemable asshole. And Vriska represents a more modern version of it, as in a jerk antihero.
I don’t really know enough mythology to say. I think Vriska MIGHT draw some inspiration from Lilith, who by some accounts is maybe described as a blue butterfly, if I remember right?
If any troll is a Satan figure though it’s definitely gamzee. I don’t really see much about Vriska that resonates with the archetype.
I would say there’s nothing really Lillith-like about Vriska. My memory is admittedly hazy, but Lillith requires an Adam and an Eve, or at least just an Adam, to play against and I think pointing to any set of Homestuck characters and calling them the A/E archetypes would be a stretch. Well, Classic ‘Lillith-as-Adam’s-First-Wife,” anyways. Further back she becomes an abstraction to the point where any comparison is too reductionist to be of value. (As Joseph Campbell discovered, cherry pick enough examples and you can connect any one entity to any other and claim causation.)
This might well be the case, too! See the other post for the rest of the stuff I had in mind when I posted this. I’m still learning about christian mythology as I go along, so it could well be nothing or actually quite apt once i really dive into that particular subject. I don’t really feel ready to commit to a stance on it.
dahniwitchoflight replied to your post “So do you think that Lord English, Doc Scratch, and Caliborn…”
well, Lilith’s sin is often called one of Lust (she wanted to top Adam) and Lust’s associated color of the seven sins was Dark Blue so, theres a slight connection there
Huh, I had no idea! That certainly matches up with Vriska’s relationship to Tavros early on, at least. I went back to look at the stuff I remembered–it was my pal @aurochsent who looked into Lilith’s wikipedia entry and there was a bunch of stuff that reminded me of Vriska, so I actually do feel theres a reasonable chance somethings there.
Namely:
Lilith being related to Light obvs echoes Vriska.
Samael is one of the three names of the Demiurge, along with Saklas and Yaldabaoth. On Alternia, we could read this as talking about Scratch, who is of course just a facet of Yaldabaoth/LE.This describes an entanglement between Lilith (Vriska), and Samael (Scratch), and a Blind Dragon, which is a dead ringer for Terezi.
I dunno that Terezi arranged anything, unless Vriska met Scratch through her flarping? This is obvs not a 1:1 match kinda thing or I’d have mentioned it earlier/with more certainty.
The blue butterfly thing as a legit piece of Lilith Lore(tm) is questionable, pending further research. But I’m inclined to argue that Homestuck considers Wikipedia its primary source for this kind of thing, so I would not be shocked if misunderstandings of mythology that get through wikipedia were to end up in homestuck in some cases.
To be clear none of this stuff seems super reliable, I still don’t feel anything certain about it, so really i’m just saying it feels like its worth researching right now. hopefully ill get to it sooner rather than later.
With the extended zodiac, we learn that hope can deal with morals and what the player views as right and wrong, so with kankri and his obsession with social justice, does that mean he was role playing a hope player and that’s why he wasn’t getting seer of blood visions??
Nah his stuff parses as pretty Blood oriented to me. He’s super concerned with the relationships enforced by society and how they enact violence/lack of choice on each other. That’s all blood stuff.
Hope is highly idealistic, it’s rooted in the imaginary and abstract. Kankri isn’t focusing on abstract ideals, he’s focusing on the material power dynamics he observed in the physical world of beforus.
That doesn’t mean he’s right or accurately assessing/prioritizing what he sees in that world, though. Just that that’s what he’s focusing.
There’s usually an explicit or implied source of influence when a player roleplays, like an ancestor figure or societal norms with the castes. I don’t think kankris implied to have anything like that other than his karmic connection to the sufferer/Karkat.
I DO think he’s drawn to/lightly exhibits some typically Knightly traits–he views himself as being of service to others, and wants to take people under his wing. apprentice them, basically, as knights seem rather inclined to do.
P sure Porrim even asks Karkat if he’s interested in what Kankri is “serving” at one point. So I do think he’s hampered by roleplaying, I just don’t think it’s got much to do with hope.
Kankri isn’t ignoring the blood part of his class, but the Seer part. Just look at how often he talks with his eyes closed. He chooses to live in the tumblr-esque fantasy world of fictitious/irrelevant problems rather than see the actual ones in front of him (the team falling apart, Porrim’s legit social justice concerns).
I think this is a great example of a person not embracing or working with their class at all. Much in the same way Rose embraces blind rage to go grimdark or Terezi had her vision restored and lost her sense of self, Kankri seems to be stuck or arrested in his development as a seer. He didn’t respond to the challenges of SGRUB because he’d never had to DO anything before, he could just pontificate ad nauseam. Also, he’s an idiot.
On a serious note, I wonder if questioning their vision/learning to trust themselves is a trial all seers must go through. It certainly seems that way from the seers we have examples of.
Pretty much exactly this, I agree. And re: seers’ recurring challenge, I’m inclined to agree! I haven’t nailed this down to any 1:1 canonical basis in a way i feel super comfortable arguing for, but it seems to me that the classes have a looot of resonance with Carol S. Pearson’s 12 heroic archetypes
Check out the description for the Sage, which seems to me like a pretty close match for Seers and Mages both, if Seers a bit moreso:
In particular:
And:
notyourexrotic replied to your post “Hey uh, got a question for you. What aspect would you consider dreams…”
Jade was defined by her prophetic dreams and she was a Space player.
True! In actuality I’d say dreamselves/the dream moons relate to a lot of different aspects in different ways–hence why I said if I had to narrow it down to one or two.
For Jade I feel like the emphasis is on the enviroment she grew up in and how Prospit’s culture/Skaia’s influence shaped her own mind. Tavros is much more transparently about escapism/getting away from the physical world.
Hey uh, got a question for you. What aspect would you consider dreams to fall under? Light, Void, Hope, Mind, or Space? I.e. if someone were a lucid dreamer and manipulated their dreams they might be a witch of which one of these aspects?
If I had to stick to one or two I’d say Void and, above all, Breath. Karkat and Tavros are juxtaposed in how much they slept during their sessions–karkat almost not at all, Tavros almost completely.
With the extended zodiac, we learn that hope can deal with morals and what the player views as right and wrong, so with kankri and his obsession with social justice, does that mean he was role playing a hope player and that’s why he wasn’t getting seer of blood visions??
Nah his stuff parses as pretty Blood oriented to me. He’s super concerned with the relationships enforced by society and how they enact violence/lack of choice on each other. That’s all blood stuff.
Hope is highly idealistic, it’s rooted in the imaginary and abstract. Kankri isn’t focusing on abstract ideals, he’s focusing on the material power dynamics he observed in the physical world of beforus.
That doesn’t mean he’s right or accurately assessing/prioritizing what he sees in that world, though. Just that that’s what he’s focusing.
There’s usually an explicit or implied source of influence when a player roleplays, like an ancestor figure or societal norms with the castes. I don’t think kankris implied to have anything like that other than his karmic connection to the sufferer/Karkat.
I DO think he’s drawn to/lightly exhibits some typically Knightly traits–he views himself as being of service to others, and wants to take people under his wing. apprentice them, basically, as knights seem rather inclined to do.
P sure Porrim even asks Karkat if he’s interested in what Kankri is “serving” at one point. So I do think he’s hampered by roleplaying, I just don’t think it’s got much to do with hope.
Flying through Storytelling 