Tag: analysis asks

is there a solid system you use for determining which class is active or passive? or does it make sense to you which is which?

I’m still trying to figure out how the exploit/allow behavior works and how the scale is structured, exactly. I’m beginning to suspect some archetypes lean Active, ie: Both the Active and Passive Class tend towards behaving more Actively (Fairies, Outlaws, Magicians), while others tend towards behaving more Passively (Royalty, Servants, Prophets).

All on the individual though, of course, and it’s only a vague sense I currently have and haven’t really figured out in a way concrete enough that I’d be happy explaining/espousing the view. Just goes to show how much I’m still trying to figure it out, myself.

I think an Active class will tend towards exploiting, and a Passive class will tend towards allowing/inviting. If you’re looking for a hard rule, it seems to me like Active classes will almost always act to benefit themselves, while Passive classes act to benefit others. As such, they tend to be coded as Selfish/Selfless respectively.

So If mages or more adept in miracles, how does that work with every aspect ? How does one perform a miracle with light or with rage? What range does the word “miracle” entail ?

I tried to express this point back in the Force & Flow essays, but I’m not sure I succeded, so I’m glad for the chance to revisit it! I think I can answer your first question with the second. The range of a “miracle” is essentially the same as the range of “magic”, a concept that canonically applies to Heirs, Witches, Maids and Sylphs. 

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Jesus’ story is imported into Homestuck in the story of the Signless–a Seer.
When Jesus comes up, John describes him as magic–just as he later describes himself, Jade, and Rose in the midst of her Witch roleplay.  (And yes, this does mean the Jegus meme had a payoff in the form of classpect exposition.)

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Later on, Rose seems to more or less figure out how to roleplay a wizard. But when Dave thinks to ask, she makes it clear what she’s doing isn’t exactly casting spells in the typical sense.

Which makes sense, because Prophets aren’t typically thought of as being magic per se. If you think about it, the miracles Jesus performs aren’t really that different from what we might imagine wizards could do.

What makes them different is a matter of emphasis. Wizards are regularly linked to knowledge, just like prophets are. Hence the concept of the “wizard’s spellbook”. But for magicians, knowledge is typically a means to an end, it’s an answer to “how” the magic is performed.

Prophets also do magic, but for them the emphasis is on the knowledge itself as opposed to the spellbook. A Prophet like Jesus or Moses would typically claim their magic wouldn’t happen at all, but for their faith in and knowledge of their divine Source–God.

Just trade in the figure of “God” for the Seer/Mage’s Aspect (the Aspects are inherently divine-coded anyway, given that they’re basically Aeons), and there you go. Any kind of magic you can think of a Prophet doing through their Aspect is something I believe reasonably falls under their purview.

I’d simply put just as much of an emphasis on what the Prophet might end up saying as a result of their Aspect’s influence, which is probably even more interesting. Do their prophecies concern/affect/benefit primarily themselves or others? How does their Aspect influence what message they have to give, and how they deliver it?

A particular nuance to the pair might be a penchant for resurrections/raising others from the dead, particularly in ways that might otherwise seem impossible. Sollux pulls this off for himself by half-ghosting, while Terezi pulls it off for Vriska by guiding John’s choices.

Does this answer your question, anon? It’s a pretty dang good one, btw.

So in your recent addition to the Jade discussion post talked about derse and prospit having inherently different cultures. We got a little bit of a look into that with the extended zodiac quiz, but would you mind giving us a bit more of an analysis?

The next Homestuck Explained is gonna be on the Dreaming World (at least one Hiveswap video coming before that, though) so in depth analysis of that will have to be later and in video form, but I actually talked about this p recently here.

Hey, I found your youtube videos on the classpects a couple of days ago and I just wanted to say that they’re very, very good. I was also wondering if you had any thoughts on Trizza’s class? Her being blood-bound certainly got a chuckle out of me, but that aside I’m having a hard time trying to fit that into my theorizing, even compared to some of the other characters with aspects that were unexpected to me, like Charun or Chahut.

I may as well throw in Dammek and the rest of these new trolls, too, since it’ll set a precedent for how I want to evaluate this class stuff as the games tell us more.
I think Roleplay’s biggest advantage is that it’s pretty falsifiable, though you gotta be careful to get access to all the potential information possible before making a decision–I’m often caught off guard by the way this stuff lines up.

Since I’m not interested in getting the fandom SUPER EXCITED for classpects or lore in general in ways that lead to disappointment with the way the story develops later on, it’s REALLY important to me that A) roleplay as an idea gets held up to scrutiny and B) that I don’t try to overreach what I can derive from the information we’re given.

So talking about my own mental process for evaluating Class, I think, can only be helpful for both. I’m gonna do this in more depth in video form soon (so much to say about Xefros), but since you’re asking here’s a rough roundup. This got long so its under the cut.

I only have guesses as to a few of the trolls’ classes, because we just have too little information on them. I was able to guess Xefros would be linked to the Serve classes, probably Knight, only because he happened to be noted as being interested in Butlers.

Even then, I wasn’t guessing his actual class. It was implied pre-release that Xefros was a butler unwillingly, so I figured he was most likely being forced into Knight roleplay. Knights being the butlers associated with serving to benefit others–in this case, the Empire, though a lot of his service ended up being directed at Dammek as well.

That was all I figured. It didn’t account for his Page nature at all, and since I wasn’t thinking about Aspects as something that could be roleplayed, I took his Time thinking at face value, though there’s plenty of references to his relationship with Rage in Act 1.

Now that said, I don’t have a clue about Trizza’s true class, honestly. There’s so many ways her character could shake out that there’s no way to tell before getting to know her more. I’m going to guess that she might well be “roleplaying” the Life aspect, if there’s any merit to the Caste Influece/Aspect roleplay idea.

If that’s the case, she’s probably being at least strongly encouraged to roleplay either a Destroyer class–if the narrative emphasis is on her adopting Alternia’s hemospectrum superiority to heart  and considering herself biologically superior by dint of aristocracy.

Or an Heiress–if she’s like Jane and has been raised to constantly perceive herself as related to her eventual inheritance of the empire.

I like this idea, because it would relate the two Crocker heiresses who are actually forced to live under the Condesce’s thumb. And because if A. Claire is Jane, then the contrast between Anna as Heiress and Trizza as Heiress would be narratively interesting.

I also think it’s the slightly likelier option, because Xefros is already referring to her as the Heiress, meaning she hasn’t abdicated/abandoned the throne like Meenah and Feferi did.

It seems to me Dammek is likely a Thief. He’s got the outlaw imagery going on, and Xefros mentions Dammek “taking his stuff.” Dammek is also forced into Butlering, just like Xefros, and being a Thief means that being put into a position of Serving for the benefit of Others is essentially counter to his very nature.

Kind of the inverse of Tavros being forced to roleplay a Rogue of Breath, in fact. It’s not a good place to be, if Tavros is any indication, so it’s no wonder Dammek is pretty fucked up.

It’s worth noting that while Dammek is demonstrably a Blood player–he’s able to steal from Xefros because of Xefros’ feelings for him, essentially, making it theft through Blood–the most notable object Dammek steals is the Hoverpad, which is a Breath item. It links to motion, flight and freedom, but also it’s laser is literally Breath blue.

So like Xefros, Dammek seems to be simultaneously manifesting his true Aspect, while also manifesting his Blood Castes’ Aspect, usually while linked with unhealthy or toxic behavior. The microphone can be interpreted as Dammek’s warped attempt to Serve Xefros Breath, for example, and theres grounds to read him as roleplaying a Knight at the time being, much like Xefros.

I treat these new trolls the same way. If there’s a suggestion of one of the archetypes in their design or text bites, I think there’s a chance they’ll be linked to the corresponding classes, either because it’s their true class or, maybe more likely, because they’re roleplaying.

I’m currently thinking there’s a chance almost every blood caste is encouraged to roleplay a particular role, so I’m keeping an eye out for that, but I’m not convinced. The strongest point of evidence would be the Olivebloods so far all qualifying as Outlaws, so I assume they’re all roughly roleplaying Thieves or Rogues.

Maxlol (god I love him) is marked by being an internet crusader (in other words, a kind of Warrior) and by a desire to serve the empire. So I think there’s a solid chance he’s a Knight, and if there’s a cultural force encouraging him to act like a Mage or Prophet, then Knight is probably even his true class?

Amisia references “making” her own Paint, which means she might have some relationship to Sylphs or Maids.

Not a class thing, but it’s worth noting that Tyzias is a Blood player and is associated with lack of sleep and, uh, maybe drinking literal blood? So I do think there’s grounds to be looking at classpect details in these little blurbs, where they appear.

That’s about all I’ve personally got right now. I’m curious about the troll call trolls, but there’s not a ton to say about each of them individually other than some idle speculation. I’ll be interested to see to what extent, if any, I’m right about any of them.

I’m not sure any of these will be the case because I’m still not 100% how much I’m full of shit about the way Roleplay seems to work, but that we’re being presented with so many trolls presents a very interesting case study.

duelist I just thought of something It`s that sollux is a idiot for not giving other trolls sgrub we know trolls that are not made by the game can still play and have classpects or maybe the pre scratch trolls that could be something that happen and what would your troll oc look like ( game and time)

I dunno that Sollux messed up, he just didn’t have a massive globe-spanning corporation to transmit the game to the planet/empire through like Grandpa did with Skaianet.

As for my trollsona, he’s in one of the Aspect videos! Here he is again:

Thanks for the ask! :B

Hey, I really like your channel! It is nice to see someone have similar views on a lot of topics within Homestuck. Sadly, I have not come to ask you about Homestuck. I just wanted to ask you, how did you start? What made you want to do this, and what other content did you/are you considering to cover?

I pretty much started by…just starting. Specifically, by blogging/writing about Homestuck stuff that I felt was going underaddressed here on Tumblr.
First I just wanted to change fandom perception of Dirkjake, and that desire expanded to include pretty much the entire narrative, particularly Classpects and the comics more obscure/implied thematic and narrative beats.

I’ve always been pretty at home with symbolism and metaphor as narrative tools, so I was never really in agreement with the common fandom mindset that Homestuck’s ending was bad, or that most things in the narrative weren’t clear enough.

And it became clear that if I wanted discussion about my views to happen, I was going to have to be the one to speak for them. So I started doing more serious research into Homestuck and the sources it tends to value, and the more I did, the more I wanted to talk about it and make these nuances and insights more widespread.

I haven’t stopped uncovering interesting stuff since, so here we are. Then I lost my job when Trump won the election, so I decided to borow from some of my favorite writers on games/fiction and take my approach to Youtube.

I didn’t know a thing about video editing, and it probably shows, but the more stuff I put out the more I learn and the better I get. I try to view the whole endeavor as an experiment and a learning opportunity, and I’ve improved my skills in pretty much every craft I’ve ever been interested in as I’ve gone on.

That’s pretty much the long and short of it.

As for what I might want to cover in the future, I keep a bit of a list of video ideas churning about in my head at any given time on my About page.

The first non-Homestuck thing I do will probably be on either Legend of Zelda or Persona 5, since those are the two most direct next-of-kin to Homestuck’s Classpect system, and Classpects will probably feature often whenever I talk about non Homestuck stuff.

I love your roleplaying theories and definitely think that they are an interesting way to look at Homestuck and certain character’s behaviours. I was just wondering if they only roleplayed another’s Class or if there were some instances of Aspects being roleplayed, too?

I’m genuinely unsure. I think there’s a possibility Xefros is manifesting the Time Aspect (and Dammek the Breath Aspect), and it seems like Joey is manifesting both Light and Life.

So I think we’re starting to see what Calliope referred to when she said players could manifest powers “in defiance of their Aspect” if corrupted or resistant to their true calling.

We saw stuff like that in Homestuck sometimes, but it’s basically always been linked to the complementary Aspect, ie: Rose’s Voidy tendencies, Aradia’s Witch behavior leading to her merging with a symbol of Space through self-prototyping like Jade did (Bec for Jade, a Frog for Aradia), so on.

Until now, that’s generally been understood as Aspect “inversion”, but given what we’re seeing in Hiveswap, I think the system is likely more flexible on the Aspect end, too.

But I don’t know in what way yet. I think Aspect “Switching” happens almost always as a *result* of Roleplay done wrong, but I don’t know if the switching itself is Roleplay, or what rules determine what Aspect one “switches” to, or rather, adds.

hello! first of all i want to tell u i really enjoy reading ur metas and analysis, i think its amazing how u contextualize some things and the entire story suddenly makes So Much sense. second, ive been wondering about hope and rage – im not sure i can word myself correctly, but hope is like an aspect that has ppl firmly believing in an ideal or belief. rage is its opposite, but both canon rage players (im not counting xefros bc were not sure about him yet – but im pretty sold on the (1/2)

page of rage idea!) seem like avid followers of their own faith/religion/cult. in the true zodiac test, the questions that seemed to relate to hope and rage seemed to put them in a clear dichotomy as well – so ive just been meaning to ask u what do u think about this?? is the dichotomy about something other than faith/doubt?? (2/2)

The main thing is that the Rage players’ religion doesn’t actually require faith, at all, because it’s simply true. The Mirthful Messiahs worship Lord English/Caliborn, and, well…he exists. He’s right in view of all the ghosts and stuff, blowing them to smithereens.

I think the dichotomy involves a lot more than faith/doubt (coherence vs. contrivance, for one thing). But as far as the Rage players’ religions go, I don’t see much of a conflict, currently.

Angels might as well be servants of LE, representing the worst of the Aspect of Hope – blind devotion and forsaking others in the name of one’s ideals – Eridan’s hinted to be influenced by them. Could they represent the cult of LE? And aren’t they blind, like LE himself? Eyes seem to be significant in Gnostic tradition. – With due respect, A

You might be right–though Jake being able to summon them makes it kind of murky, its not like they were presented in a very nice light then, either. I honestly don’t feel I have the angels “Figured Out”, and I’m not even quite sure I’m supposed to.
Jake’s arc is, after all, rather incomplete–his big showdown with Caliborn in the Masterpiece is still ahead of him.

Maybe we’ll learn more about angels in the future, or, frankly more likely at this point, i’m missing some gnostic myth or other source that contextualizes them really well. Hard to say.