I’m genuinely unsure. I think there’s a possibility Xefros is manifesting the Time Aspect (and Dammek the Breath Aspect), and it seems like Joey is manifesting both Light and Life.
So I think we’re starting to see what Calliope referred to when she said players could manifest powers “in defiance of their Aspect” if corrupted or resistant to their true calling.
We saw stuff like that in Homestuck sometimes, but it’s basically always been linked to the complementary Aspect, ie: Rose’s Voidy tendencies, Aradia’s Witch behavior leading to her merging with a symbol of Space through self-prototyping like Jade did (Bec for Jade, a Frog for Aradia), so on.
Until now, that’s generally been understood as Aspect “inversion”, but given what we’re seeing in Hiveswap, I think the system is likely more flexible on the Aspect end, too.
But I don’t know in what way yet. I think Aspect “Switching” happens almost always as a *result* of Roleplay done wrong, but I don’t know if the switching itself is Roleplay, or what rules determine what Aspect one “switches” to, or rather, adds.
Terezi and Karkat, one of which could have been roleplaying a Knight, while the other was a Knight, were linked with the colour white – although in Flip it was only the glasses for Terezi (and wings for Vriska). What are your thoughts on that? (22)
Thanks for the ask! And for the insight. This might well be a solid point in favor of reading Knights as Active.
I honestly don’t know if this scene is meant to convey this kind of Yin/Yang stuff, tbh? That said, Vriska’s roleplaying a Sylph, which is one of the most passive classes. So this wouldn’t match the imagery either way.
Karkat and Gamzee here might certainly back up the view, though. Karkat’s in white, clear as day.
I should mention Karkat and Gamzee here would probably still check out, either way. Bard is one of the most passive classes, and Karkat is the one about to take action here–he’s simply more Active than Gamzee is, at the present moment.
And in the very next shot, the colors invert. And this isn’t the only time just the signs are used to denote Active/Passive status, I don’t think?
So things seem a little muddled to me right now. I suppose I should tip my hand a bit and say that, if I seem hard-headed in talking about how nuanced this is, it’s only because I’m weighing this section of Karkat’s arc with literal word of god in mind.
I’m talking about this bit of a post on Active/Passive dynamics Hussie posted on Tumblr, back in the Good Old Days oh god i’ve been in this fandom so long…:
Being from Derse means you are from a culture of offense and aggression. Being from Prospit means the opposite. [..]
[…] Or maybe sometimes they are tendencies that are resisted, and need to be understood and embraced. As a Prospit dreamer, did Karkat struggle because he was actually passive in nature, but had a very active self image as a leader and conqueror?
Was Vriska an even more extreme case of misplaced active behavior from a Prospit dreamer? These are yet more things to consider when looking at everything contributing to the hero story of an individual in this game.
So there’s that. Karkat and Dave certainly echo Rose’s arc of starting off miserable and quite Active, and slowly growing happier as they adopt more passive roles. So I’m not sure what to think here, but I have to admit, I’m genuinely swayed.
page of rage idea!) seem like avid followers of their own faith/religion/cult. in the true zodiac test, the questions that seemed to relate to hope and rage seemed to put them in a clear dichotomy as well – so ive just been meaning to ask u what do u think about this?? is the dichotomy about something other than faith/doubt?? (2/2)
The main thing is that the Rage players’ religion doesn’t actually require faith, at all, because it’s simply true. The Mirthful Messiahs worship Lord English/Caliborn, and, well…he exists. He’s right in view of all the ghosts and stuff, blowing them to smithereens.
I think the dichotomy involves a lot more than faith/doubt (coherence vs. contrivance, for one thing). But as far as the Rage players’ religions go, I don’t see much of a conflict, currently.
You might be right–though Jake being able to summon them makes it kind of murky, its not like they were presented in a very nice light then, either. I honestly don’t feel I have the angels “Figured Out”, and I’m not even quite sure I’m supposed to. Jake’s arc is, after all, rather incomplete–his big showdown with Caliborn in the Masterpiece is still ahead of him.
Maybe we’ll learn more about angels in the future, or, frankly more likely at this point, i’m missing some gnostic myth or other source that contextualizes them really well. Hard to say.
The more I think about it, the more I agree with Tex Talk’s description of the Aspects as each relating to an element in narrative construction.
It’s been traditionally accepted that Light is the Aspect of narrative revelance/importance. The “Spotlight”, if you will. Tex argues that all the Aspects represent different elements of a story.
So I’d say all Aspects are an aspect of stories, in that they all describe different parts of narrative construction that make a story whole.
So then it’s not so much that Light is the aspect of stories, but that the fact that Homestuck is a story is one of the most important things about it. Indeed, characters like Vriska and Jasprose come by the closest to acknowledging and interacting with the author.
I’m not sure about this, to be honest. If Joey were a breath player, I’d expect to see more Breath-related descriptions and dialogue surrounding her. So far, there’s a lot of Light and Life, but I haven’t seen much Breath yet. Feel free @ me with stuff.
Besides which, sure Joey’s related to John, but by that measure she could just as likely be a Space player, like Jade. I actually wouldn’t be shocked, to be honest? It’d require some recontextualizing, but I could see arguments that Space imagery is already there, what with the green sun and all that.
Her parents are also Jake, a Hope player, and if my guess about A. Claire is right, then a version of Jane, so a Life player. Or A.Claire could be someone else entirely, at which point she could be any Aspect and might be influencing Joey in ways we don’t understand yet.
My point is, there’s room for Joey to be related to players of lots of different Aspects, so I’m not sure I’d use that as a way to tell for sure.
Thanks! Classpecting characters in fiction has definitely gotten way easier for me as I figure this stuff out–even with the parts i’m definitely wrong about or not really sure of, its just a really solid framework for character assessment/analysis
Happy to know I’m not the only one who feels that way.
yep, the art troll is pretty brutal. Alternia is a fascist dystopia so like…most of the highbloods are gonna be murderous and oppressive. Most trolls are, in general. It’s the nature of the system.
I don’t know that anyone’s arguing that troll society itself conciously considers those signs special, so I’m not sure why you’re addressing me as such.
But insofar as canon goes, those signs are already explicitly special, by virtue of the fact that their holders are the ones who all of Alternia exists to faciliate, so that they in turn can facilitate the existence of LE. Literally all of Alternian history already revolves around the 24 trolls who play Sburb–the beginning of the race, it’s evolution towards exploitative fascism, it’s eventual apocalypse–ALL of it traces back to the 24 trolls who play Sburb. Trying to tell me the signs associated with those trolls aren’t special is…kind of ridiculous?
Whether or not troll society is aware of that, or treats them with any special distinction, is beside the point. I’d guess they probably don’t! Why treat a Rustblood sign with any particular distinction if they’re all rubbish in the end, in Alternia’s eyes? Etc.
But the only thing Wak seems to be arguing for is an association between the Castes and the True Sign’s ASPECT, not the True Sign itself. And I feel that’s already demonstrably true, to some extent.
All rustbloods have to think about their short lifespans and imminent deaths, and going by Xefros’ example, the sheer amount of time they’re expected to devote to intense service, too. All of that lends itself to a focus on thinking in terms of Time. All goldbloods have to think about the possibility of being conscripted to exploitative, sacrificial service if their psiionics are good enough. That lends itself to a cultural pattern of thinking about Doom. Olivebloods seem to be living in the wild, which would distance them from society and make them more aware of their Selves–and so, Heart.
So on and so forth. That dynamic is what I’m interested in, moreso than anything about the True Signs themselves. I currently regard them as indicators, not much else–the groundwork for this idea is all over troll lore, and that’s why it interests me. It’s possible we’re way off base here, but if so, I expect Act 2 will make that clear. Does that clear up my position for you, anon?
Flying through Storytelling 