i am losing my SHIT about this goddamn calendar ok Dirk and Jake are in JAPAN, BEING *BOYFRIENDS*, AND JAKE IS WEARING KITTY EARS!!!!! TAKE MY MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tag: Anonymous
My 11th grade english teacher taught us that writers go over their work again and again– they don’t put every bit of symbolism in their first draft, that gets added later. How on earth did Andrew Hussie put so much symbolism in Homestuck when it was updated whenever he finished the next page? He couldn’t have thought all this out ahead of time, could he?
Your English teacher was wrong, for starters. The presumption that all writers develop their work the same way is flat-out incorrect. I know writers who can only write with outlines, writers who don’t use outlines at all, writers who believe they’re writing out events that happened in some other place in the multiverse, and writers who strongly attest to just the opposite.
Depending on who you ask, writing is intellectual or personal or philosophical or spiritual or any combination of the above, and no two people approach it identically. Writing, like all art, is as personal an alchemy as the construction of your own identity.
So it’s entirely possible Hussie is a writer who could indeed have thought a lot of this out ahead of time. I don’t know the guy and am not in the habit of speculating as to his nature or allowing ideas about what’s “possible” for a writer to influence how I read the text, because usually what people think is “possible” is just a bunch of self-limiting bullshit.
That said, I don’t really know how Hussie wrote the story, beyond a few methods that are beginning to seem self-evident to me. We’re lucky in that one such method is one he’s discussed himself, presented here through @curlicuecal ‘s excellent roundup of Hussie’s quotes on writing:
The takeaway here is that Hussie is a very rules-focused author, who values consistency and strict adherence to the parameters he lays out.
This is specifically about character writing, but Homestuck is a rules-focused narrative in all things, so it’s easy to extrapolate elsewhere:
The Alpha Timeline, Classpects, Roleplay, The Active/Passive Spectrum, Denizen symbolism, Dreamselves–all have corresponding sets of rules, whether they be guides for behaviors, logical consequences to actions taken, or the fundamental structures of the setting itself.
It’s also demonstrably true that Hussie is something of a culture remixer, who will freely adapt entire plotlines from other sources for a particular character’s arc if it’s useful to his goal.
So I’d suggest that this hypothesis is somewhat likely:
At least insofar as the Gnostic symbolism that pervades the entire story goes, you’re mixing up cause and effect.
Hussie didn’t need a second draft to “add” symbols to his story, because Homestuck is built around the symbols in the first place.
It’s worth noting that Homestuck itself puts a massive emphasis on the power of Symbols through the TRAGICALLY overlooked Drunk Rose District section:
So, for example, Hussie didn’t need to know every minute twist and turn of Caliborn’s ridiculous story in order to build him up as a compelling villain–he just needed to start Homestuck’s story with the understanding that it was about being “Trapped” in a flawed world created by a “Yaldabaoth” figure:
a flawed, evil Creator God associated with the Sun.
This means Hussie could use the symbol of the Sun to stand in as a symbol for Yaldabaoth/the central antagonist, which is precisely what we see him do:
And the details of the antagonist’s nature could be developed and presented later, linking the character to the Symbol explicitly in any number of ways:
Like the red sun being presented later in Caliborn’s artwork, “Homosuck”–represented by his red cheek spiral, no less.
Hussie could also hypothetically build from the symbolism already associated with Yaldabaoth to flesh out the character further. All it would take is some cursory research on, say, Wikipedia or other freely accessible texts like Jung’s 7 Sermons.
The Demiurge is sometimes described as an Angel, and through association with Samael, specifically an Angel of Death. There we get LE embodying Death to Troll-kind, and Caliborn and Calliope’s Cherubic origins. So on and so forth.
This is the logic that guides my approach in researching everything Homestuck presents, not just Caliborn. The Classpects, the Denizens, particular character beats–everything. So far, I think it’s been pretty fruitful, so I might be onto something with all this.
And doing this kind of freeballing, primarily online research for mythbuilding would also make a lot of sense if Hussie were, for example, writing primarily for an online audience known for researching and analyzing pretty much everything the story presents.
It would in fact be quite efficient to include some references to Wikipedia and then litter the story with thematic and symbolic callouts, letting the fandom pick up the threads and apply them to the plot, which itself would benefit from being able to focus on itself without having to take the time to explain and break down every symbol and reference.
Again it’s worth saying that this is just me guessing based off what I’ve seen in Homestuck itself. I have no idea if Hussie actually approached the story at all like this. I could well be wrong.
But whether or not it’s true in Hussie’s specific case, it’s certainly a way one could plausibly construct a story like Homestuck, if one were inclined to write a very complex story with profound symbology and approached writing as a process of setting and then holding to a series of rules.
So whether or not it’s true here, I think it lends a certain logic to how stories like Homestuck could be written, and that makes it a valuable exercise in critical analysis and in considering how I might like to write things someday, myself.
Writing works like this is certainly not impossible.
It just takes a little foresight, persistence and commitment to a certain work style, and good foundational design.
Yo, I may have discovered another way Dirk emulates Dave, through music. In the 2 major flashes Dirk was in, Prince: Rise up, Unite, and Synchronize, they play 2 themes that were previously associated with Dave, Time On My Side and Unite Synchronization (due to the bandcamp art that represents those tracks). I’m curious on your thoughts on this.
my main thought is “mother of fuck now ill never be able to unthink that” so good job anon thats certainly part of MY canon now
im trying to find my classpect and im. a little confused as to what that actually Is? does it define who you are as a person, who you are at your core? is it what you Strife to be/aspire to be, however far away from it you are? how does one go about finding their Aspect even? like drawing something is essentially creating space, ending a relationship is destroying blood, but everyone does that so how exactly do you find like, Your Thing?
a little confused as to what that actually Is? does it define who you are as a person, who you are at your core?
how does one go about finding their Aspect even?
For the former, I’d say it’s a little of column A, a little of column B. The best way to pick a classpect, in my personal opinion, is to look for that reflects your strengths AND ALSO inspires you to do better. Everybody does a little of everything, but everyone also shines at particular things–and those are usually things they happen to like doing! But that’s going to be different for everyone, and taking that approach only FOR SURE worked for me.
For the latter, I’d say how does anyone find their bender type in Avatar fandom? Just play around with whatever Aspects resonate with you and whatever concepts sound cool. If all of them do, then great! You have a multitude of lenses through which to view yourself and understand your own strengths and potential.
Also, not trying to be pedantic, but on the chance that you genuinely mixed them up I may as well say you meant ‘Strive’ in that one sentence, not ‘Strife’. Just tryin’ to be helpful.
I guess my real advice is: keep in mind that whatever you identify with can change, and ultimately the whole endeavor is just for fun. Don’t stress yourself out about it!
What if the only reason Jude has pigeons is to see if pigeons babies exist.
would dirk be disgusted by the mlp dashiefucquers or would he be one of them
i dont think he’s likely to be disgusted by any kink or fetish (that isnt, you know, exploitative or abusive) no matter how bizzare, since hes pretty weird himself and pretty stoic/academic about assessing humanity in general
that said hes gay so i doubt hed be into rainbow dash that way. as for whether he’s into the aesthetic of the show That Way id say your imagination is a powerful enough tool to decide whether the dirk in your head is or not for itself, you dont need me for that
Do you think that Rose and Kanaya were originally going to be moirails, and that their being girlfriends was OOC and detrimental to their characters? Generally, what do you think of rosemary?
Well, it’s @rosemarymonth and I’ve wanted to talk about Rosemary and why I think the canon gets WAY too little credit with regards to their execution for ages so I may as well do it now.
Keep in mind, of course, that I am a dude and in no way want any wlw to feel I’m shutting down critiques of Homestuck’s flaws in this regard. I think that’s perfectly valid, this is just my reading. I’ll be interested in seeing what people have to say.
I don’t get to talk about Rosemary enough anyway, so I’ll also take you up on it and go over why I love Rosemary and why I think readings that they were “meant to be moirails” and “go ooc” is straight up just misreading the text, because the comic is actually pretty clear in broadcasting its intent.
The thing to keep in mind is that Homestuck’s entire plot follows one consistent rule: The message of AURYN from The Neverending Story, “Do what you will.”
The events in Homestuck that actually happen are by design the sum product of the wills of the entire cast, and how well characters express their wills on reality directly correlates to how “powerful” they are.
Caliborn is the villain because Lord English violates EVERYONE’s agency by confining them all to the plot of Homestuck/his Alpha Timeline. Within the confines of those prescribed paths, however, reality always defaults to fulfilling the wishes of all characters involved, or resolving the tension between them.
What this means PRACTICALLY is that almost every event that happens in the story, no matter how ridiculous….
is, on some level, foreshadowed by the desires of the characters, just as Arquius’ heroic sacrifice and absorption into LE is foreshadowed by the desires of both him and Caliborn:
Oh, and speaking about Caliborn wanting to be bros with Dirk and allowing him to die as if going to sleep:
All this in mind, let’s focus on Rose and Kanaya. No, I don’t get the impression they were ever going to be moirails. I’m not sure when Hussie decided on Rosemary, but I get the impression it was early, at least by the time Kanaya was introduced.
Why? Let’s take stock of both girls’ desires and conflicts throughout Act 5.
Kanaya’s early characterization revolved around A) A tendency to gravitate and pacify take-charge, forward individuals,
and B) A profound dissatisfaction with that role.
That’s what burned her out so hard when she was interested in Vriska. So I’m not sure why one would assume that actually, Kanaya’s True Destiny was to fall into… the exact same arrangement with Rose once again, despite expressly avoiding it. That doesn’t seem like good storytelling to me.
Especially since Rose is, from the very beginning, posited as an idealistic escape from that solitude for Kanaya. Kanaya is the receiver of Rose’s prophetic text—one of her earliest big contributions as a Seer of Light– and it makes a tremendous impact on her.
That impact is partly manifested as an out and out romantic fantasy about Rose, who Kanaya idealizes as the legendary leader of her session.
Kanaya’s fantasies about Rose in this regard play heavily into her attempted courtship through the Flighty Broads and their Snarky Horseshitometer sequence—and it is romantic courtship.
Kanaya makes that clear in the mission-critical text document where she positions herself as an antagonistic suitor to John, and that document is first referenced in… oh, mid-Act 4.
So Kanaya’s romantic interest suffuses the narrative from pretty early on.
What about Rose?
Let’s talk about romance aesthetics. Pretty much every endgame ship in Homestuck is couched in a distinctive brand of romantic connotation. For example, Dave and Karkat are linked to anime romance cliches, with Dave as shonen hero and Karkat as heroine.
Jade and Davepeta are linked by a mutual indulgence in furry identity. Vriska and Terezi get the “Home Sweet Home” connotation of The Wizard of Oz, and Dirk and Jake have the undying devotion and mutual passion implied by their link to The Princess Bride.
Rose is once described as a reserved girl “enamored by what dwelt in shadow”. This is a facet of her characterization that’s present from moment 1, what with her interest in the Horrorterrors. Another obvious place to go is Mom, and by association Roxy–both of whom certainly “dwell in shadow” as Void players.
And then, of course, we have Kanaya:
Vampires are traditionally associated with hiding in darkness, away from the Light. And Kanaya describes her rainbow drinker fantasy in exactly those terms. So this aesthetic link between them is established pretty damn early, too.
Of course, Kanaya is not a traditional vampire. I’m far from the first to point out that Rainbow Drinkers most strongly resemble the hyper-romanticized, shine-in-the-light vampires of Twilight, one of the most popular romance series for teen girls of the 2000′s.
Taking that incredibly popular aesthetic and using it as a wrapper for the love story of two girls is instantly compelling. What’s genius is that this is a cocktail of imagery that has natural appeal for Rose as a person, because while it’s true that she’s interested in the darkness that surrounds her, it’s clear that Rose spends her narrative seeking the truth and the meaningful.
In other words, even when she’s enmeshed in darkness, what Rose wants is…
The Light. She may not have taken an interest in Meyer’s prose or Edward’s surly patriarchal authority, but all else being equal? Rose was all but made for a story with imagery like Twilight’s. That in and of itself would be evocative and romantic enough, but it goes deeper.
Because Rose’s relationship with Kanaya is deeply interwoven with her relationship to the reality of Homestuck, a conflict that Kanaya directly helps her solve. Perhaps fittingly, given that Kanaya is a Sylph implied to be “Made of Space”, and so innately linked to the Setting of the story through her Aspect.
This conflict between Rose and the Setting of Homestuck is, in my view, nothing less than the main thrust of Rose’s character arc, so it’ll take a little bit to unpack. Let’s dig in.
Rose gets too little credit. She is the first of the main cast to really learn about Lord English, and the unfathomable, canon-defining threat he poses to the cast.
But even before she learns about him in name, she spends pretty much her entire arc resisting and fighting against his machinations, subtly perceiving something deeply wrong in the story from its very beginning.
In this, Rose strikes a compelling counterpoint to her partner TT, Dirk Strider.
Because If Dirk’s character arc revolves around his belief that he himself is inherently evil, then it’s fair to say Rose’s main conflict is a belief that
the world itself is inherently evil.
Or at the very least, incomprehensible and meaningless. Random and empty of logic or reason. And borderline antagonistic to her and her friends, as though reality itself is an unfortunate occurence.
In other words, Rose’s experience of reality is deeply colored by Void, the aspect of the unimportant, meaningless, irrelevant, and most importantly: incomprehensible.
Just as Dave’s sense of self is broken by his abusive upbringing from a Prince of Heart, so too Rose’s sense of reality is shaped by her codependent relationship with her Mom, a guardian whose actions she can neither understand nor predict.
As a Seer of Light, Rose is drawn towards trying to understand the truth, and in particular the inner truths and meanings behind the minds of others. At the core of her being, Rose is a person who desperately desires to know and understand.
Consider how frustrating this must make Mom’s erratic and dysfunctional behavior to her–there’s no rhyme or reason behind her mother’s actions, influenced as they are by her depression, loneliness, and alcoholism.
There’s just apparent randomness from the person who defines her entire life–
in essence, the God of her household.
Add in Roxy’s tendency toward passive-aggressive behavior–which Rose definitely perceives from her Mom, whether it was intentionally directed at her or not–and it’s unsurprising that Rose quickly begins to view reality as not just nonsensical and arbitrary, but outright antagonistic.
Rose’s inherently defiant worldview is only intensified by Sburb. Not only does Mom continue being aloof and indecipherable, but Rose discovers that fate has apparently already decreed that she and her friends are doomed to failure and death. To Rose this is more than unacceptable: It’s infuriating.
Throughout Act 5, characters often comment on how Rose’s obsession with subverting Sburb leads her to becoming withdrawn, self-serious, and distant from her relationships. She also attempts to assume responsibility for herself and everyone around her, culminating in the suicide mission she tries to take on alone.
All of this is accompanied by her tearing her Land apart, as she foregoes its “childish” path in favor of something she perceives as more mature and adult. Most blatantly of all, Rose flirts with emulating her Mom in her most obviously adult activity: indulging alcohol. Rose is, in essence, trying to be an adult. Forcing herself to grow up too fast.
By the way? Withdrawing emotions, carefully managing the feelings of others, attempting to assume outsize responsibility for their households and attempting to take care of their guardians are all behavioral hallmarks of kids who grow up in codependent households.
Fast-forward to the aftermath of Cascade, when Rose achieves God Tier and comes face to face with Kanaya for the first time. It’s notable that achieving God Tier is the first moment that Rose is given any indication whatsoever that the plight she shared with her friends was not just random, pointless doom.
It is instead a lucky break. Or a suggestion of greater meaning. In essence, it’s the first time Rose is given really any reason to see reality as anything but the chaotic, nonsensical burden she’s experienced it as so far.
The revelation is accompanied by Kanaya’s sudden phosphorescence, which Rose describes as “inexplicable”–a word usually associated with frustration for her. Here, however, it comes as a happy surprise. Here, Rose is seeing through the incomprehensible Void of her reality to perceive Light for the first time.
Especially since the trend continues. As Rose grows more confident reality not necessarily ALWAYS being a hellish, meaningless landscape of random and pointless suffering, she also grows more playful and willing to be sincere.
She grows to trust the Light she was once so suspicious of, asks Kanaya out on dates, and comments on things she enjoys about her without insincerity.
But she remains traumatized and conflicted about her relationship to both her Mom and the world, and takes up Mom’s alcoholism as a way to try to understand the former and ignore the latter.
This comes between her and Kanaya, since Kanaya relies on Rose to help her figure out HER role in the world, and to figure out how to achieve the revival of her species.
It’s worth mentioning that alcohol abuse, for both Rose and Roxy, is extremely Void-coded. It leads Rose to prioritize the pointless, ridiculous, unimportant and non-existent.
Void is also deeply tied to all things physical, as opposed to Light’s link to ideas and the imaginary. And Rose’s lack of guidance is a factor in making Kanaya succumb to her own addiction to Blood.
Here, Kanaya ends up valuing the desires of her physical form as a Rainbow Drinker over the more idealistic goal of the revival of her species, or even her relationship with Rose. As such, the two girls’ problems are marked as the same problem, even as they drive them further apart from one another.
And we see where their disunity and lack of direction takes them Pre-Retcon:
It renders both of them less effective, and thus less important to the plot.
It also leads them to misfortune. Rose’s inability to connect with and help, or even be helped by Kanaya, leads directly to tragedy in her relationship to the world.
Good thing there’s a flip side.
In the retcon timeline, Rose and Kanaya work stuff out. Rose gets past her alcohol addiction and directly credits Kanaya’s aid for it. Kanaya resists the pull of literal blood as she takes Karkat to Echidna and engages in an intellectual discussion about his relationship to his Aspect and the future of Troll-kind.
Rose reconciles with her Mom completely through Roxy, finding meaning where she could only speculate before. And with her increased ability to sort truth from lie, important from unimportant, and meaningful from irrelevant…
She resolves the tension between herself and the “demands” of Sburb, openly voicing her ambivalence to the very concept of her Personal Quest. In so doing, she illuminates an important truth to both the cast and the audience: that Sburb’s prescribed path to self-actualization is not particularly important, and certainly not strictly necessary.
Inner truth, understanding, good fortune, foresight, and happiness–Rose never needed to comply with some videogame’s 12-step program for self-satisfaction to get any of that, and neither do we. Light can arise anywhere, as long as you have the patience to look for it and people who love you at your side.
Hope this helps you see what I see, anon. Rose and Kanaya’s story is one worth cherishing, and I haven’t even come close to saying all I think there is to say about it, if you can believe that! But its a start.
Happy rosemary month, happy Halloween, and as always
Keep rising! 😉
I’ve never been very knowledgeable of classpects, and I’d like to start getting into it and the different theories. Is there anything you could recommend reading (aside from what’s been said in-comic) for a beginner to get started?
@bladekindeyewear , @theworstpersonintheworld (misleadingly named) @dahniwitchoflight have both done really good writing on it. In particular, I’m still heavily influenced by their views on Aspects.
Tex Talks does an amazing job breaking down the Aspects he’s covered, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2TzBgFx3mo&t=1254s&ab_channel=TexTalks
As for classes, all of the people above but Tex have also written on those. I basically don’t agree with anyone’s model of Classes but my own, which is p similar to others listed here other than the fact that I don’t buy Class “inversion”, feel pretty strongly that Pages are Active and Knights are Passive (and group them under the verb “Serve” where many would use exploit or whatnot), and of course the whole addition of the class roleplay system. You can find my own writing on classes here: https://medium.com/@RoseOfNobility/force-and-flow-the-aspects-arent-the-only-existential-duality-at-play-in-classpects-fd1c3958314c
i always forget people during this stuff but thats not a bad start
do you have any advice for trying to assign yourself a classpect?
Keep in mind that it’s ultimately only worth doing if it makes you happy and helps you visualize your strengths/like yourself more. They’re a useful tool for assessing yourself if you understand them and yourself well, but not everyone is there or even interested in it and that’s ok! At the same time, I think classpects are at their best when they give you something to aspire to and strive for.
Basically just make sure you’re engaging healthily and that you’re having fun. As far as, like, picking one? I’d just say the more you read about the system the easier it is to figure it out. That’s what worked for me, anyhow!
Your banner picture is so beautiful!!! Did you make it yourself or did you commission it and what is the story behind it? Is it a picture of you?
thank you! I was lucky enough to get it as a gift from two cool friends:
@aldrensertan did my Planet, The Land of Depth and Twinkles–his planets are great btw check them commissions out.
@bettycrockerscookbook did the drawing of my God Tier–his art is similarly fantastic!
Flying through Storytelling 