i agree with p much all your meta on Maid of Light Joey… but a part of me thinks Mage of Rage is about equally likely rn, and a lot of the Light symbols are jsut too heavy handed as an attempt to misdiret us seeing as Gamzee himself, our only central Rage player, also had a LOT of Light symbolism around him often, including in his land, due ot how the Aspects are linked by ‘specificity’ and existing mostly in the realms of images or conceptual systms

I’d be interested in seeing your argument for Rage–I’d guess it comes down to her being very angry at Jake and Dammek? 

If so, I think the root of her anger is her affinity for Light, in ways I’ll explain soon. Sorry I keep making dumb posts just ALLUDING to this post instead of, y’know, writing it–i’ve been compiling footage but its been a busy weekend.

Man i wish i had like. any sort of work/life balance or stability instead of being on overdrive and feeling not fast enough all the time? lol

But in the meantime i get to entertain the interesting views people like you put forward, anon! So please fill me in on what you think

hi um, not gonna ask from my main blog even though i think youve taken admirable steps to keep your candid discussion from becoming a dramabomb, but yeah… i had no idea that swamp wizard was pirating this shit, thats Evil, but like… even before that, he was accusing cohen of promoting child molestation because of the dumb obvious interview joke, and insinuating that only the kid friendly rating of hiveswap was preventing cohen from writing child molestation into the narrative. like… jfc

The history of swamp’s blog is that of a lazy, arrogant blogger smugly taking the dimmest view possible about what has now been DRAMATICALLY REVEALED to be one of the most hard-working, dedicated, kind-hearted and well-intentioned group of LGBT art creators out there, actually doing the work and taking the risks to make an IMPACT on the cultural sphere. 

This has involved denigration perception of their brand among fellow fans in vicious sacrifice to building up his own status as an Ideologically Good and Correct Progressive, and literally hurting their bottom line and risking the death of their ability to make art.

And he’s done this NOW, in the age of fucking Donald Trump, when LGBT stories and antifascist stories are at more risk than they have been in the last century.
There’s not much to value in his ideological legacy. 

I’m gonna have to dissagree with you on the whole “Eridan is irredeemable” thing. Simply because he did have his reasons for doing things(they were just bad/misinformed reasons), and wasn’t as much of a Nice Guy(TM) as everyone says. Here’s what happened, according to what I remember: Eridan tries to convince everyone(or at least Feferi) that there’s no hope if they don’t join with Jack(not realizing that there’s no hope with Jack either). 1/4

Feferi’s like “Ew, you’re just doing this cause you like me.” Eridan goes “Ew bitch, no. I am so far over you, I literally don’t care about you except you’re also technically the Empress now.” Sollux challenges Eridan to their Hate Duel and Eridan goes “Ugh fine”. Sollux gets Rekt, and Feferi gets pissed that her new “pet”(because that’s what Sollux seemed to be to her) didn’t win and tries to kill Eridan. 2/4
Eridan kills her first, destroys the Matriorb to distract Kanaya when she looks like she might go for him next(arguably the only uncalled for action, as I don’t think she’d actually attacked him yet), kills Kanaya, and then leaves poor Karkat alone and goes to find somebody to go with him to join Jack. ¾
So he didn’t just go on a murder spree, he was either winning a duel(Sollux), or defending himself against (percieved) threats(Feferi and Kanaya). If he was really gonna go on a murder spree, he would’ve killed Karkat, too. Also all of this probably wouldn’t have happened if A: Feferi had done her job as his Moiral; or B: Present!Karkat hadn’t called it off with Past!Eridan. (Sorry if this all sounds rude, I just really hate when people don’t actually pay attention to Eridan’s character) 4/4

You have some serious issues with women, anon. From the top:

A) Eridan was cruel, ungrateful, judgmental and unpleasant to everyone who had the misfortune of talking to him from his first appearance. Also, he’s a fucking Nazi. Feferi was forced into a position of trying to cool the temperament of a literal genocidal nazi asshole. Nobody owed Eridan further emotional labor once he was no longer a threat.

B) Your view that Feferi viewed Sollux as a ‘pet’ is as uncharitable as it is based on absolutely nothing. If you’re going to make statements that dramatic at me, be prepared to back them up with the text and have your reading put under scrutiny. I’m not here to indulge the validity of everyone’s pet headcanons. I’m here to talk about Homestuck. 

C) You’re forgetting the part where Eridan tried to get Feferi SPECIFICALLY to join Jack with him. The offer was not open to Sollux and was not made to anybody else. Eridan considered her worthy because she’s ruling class, because oh have I mentioned, Eridan is a fucking nazi.

D) I literally do not care to what extent Eridan was personally out to go on a murder spree. He’s still a gutless coward who abandoned all his friends and took dim views of even the ones who went out of their way to show him kindness, like Karkat, on account of his ***LITERAL SPACE NAZI IDEOLOGY***

E) Andrew Hussie himself talked about him in the dimmest of terms, calling him the worst kind of bastard Homestuck has to offer in the context of Act 5–harsher words than I’d use, considering LE and Gamzee exist. But like. You’re gonna have a hard time finding evidence for your pet reading, bud. 

F) Maybe when you’re expressing virulent misogyny at a female character don’t LITERALLY call her slurs? It’s kind of on the nose. You might have noticed part of my aesthetic is valuing the effort it takes to read between the lines, so like give me a little room for doubt here as to where you’re coming from ok thanks.

G) I didn’t even call Eridan completely irredeemable in the grand scheme of things, for fuck’s sake. My point was that actually just the opposite: That no matter how bad Eridan was, you still have to read him while weighing the agency of a child trapped in an exploitative system with the literal quasi-Adult GOD that set up that system in the first place. 

Eridan is shit, but there’s potential for him to be not shit somewhere in his character. The two statements are not contradictory. 

man I don’t think you can really say bro is brainwashed but gamzee’s just evil when you can argue that gamzee’s also possessed by cal. they even have really similar relationships to how he’s formed, ie part of their souls exist inside lil cal already. which is probably a good explanation for how lil cal is able to brainwash them when he doesn’t brainwash, like, dave, who is around him his whole childhood. idk, I just think gamzee’s more complicated than “evil ass hole”

As it happens, Gamzee has a line I never gave much weight to before noticing Bro’s SAW interest that I’m more inclined to take seriously now, that suggests Gamzee and Bro’s relationship to Cal WAS intrinsically different:

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But even if Bro is kind of a noble captor figure holding Cal back, I still wouldn’t think it excuses any of what he put Dave through. He’s still an awful dude.

As for Gamzee, here’s the main problem with reading him as “just” brainwashed.

Gamzee doesn’t require Lil Cal’s presence to go evil. In fact, Gamzee doesn’t seem to require ANYTHING to turn evil. 
But even if like, Doc Scratch ALWAYS teleports Lil Cal into Gamzee’s presence to trigger his personality shift, I don’t think it would matter.
The weight of the sheer SCALE of Gamzee’s devotion cements his place as an ultimately willing accomplice/acolyte to Caliborn’s Dark Carnival. 

And it kind of makes Gamzee fucking terrifying and a fantastic villain.

I’ll explain my reasoning here.

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We know for a fact that Gamzee snaps and kills all his friends in at least one Doomed timeline. This is the source for half the code used in the creation of Doc Scratch. There’s no implication that Lil Cal is involved here at all. 

But again, let’s assume Lil Cal was here again. It doesn’t matter.

Because there is canonically, explicitly, no timeline in the history of Gamzee where Gamzee ever, ever, EVER chooses to rebel. Gamzee Makara simply does not ever choose his friends over Lord English.  In any timeline. Ever.
How do I know?

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Lets talk about Ghosts for a minute. The fandom has historically kind of taken these guys for granted, and loose fandom consensus is that they aren’t coherent/who has what ghosts is arbitrary. This is incorrect!

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Pretty much everybody in the Bubbles that should have alt!ghosts does, including Meenah and Aranea, the two characters who’s alt!ghosts are typically presumed “Missing”. 

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This is important. The Ghosts kind of give us very low-key character development, and contextualize the characters for us. For example, Eridan is an absolute irredeemable bastard in the Alpha timeline. But in a God Tier iteration of themselves, Eridan and Feferi seemingly come to friendlier terms. In another, there’s suggestions Eridan makes up with Feferi and Sollux. In yet another, he seems to be Trans or exploring femininity at least.

The point is, there’s a certain fluidity to Eridan’s potential. Still terrible in the comic, but it’s important to remember that Eridan didn’t CHOOSE to be trapped in the meteor with Jack, or to be born to Alternia’s power system, or to be trapped in the Alpha Timeline. 

It’s important to remember these things because in Homestuck, someone with power–Lord English–deliberately and willfully chose those things FOR him. Eridan’s lives are lived in response to that imposed power structure.
These factors don’t redeem him completely necessarily

But anyway, the fact that the rest of the cast have coherent quantum expressions means there are only three real exceptions–three characters who either don’t have any ghosts at all, or should have more ghosts than they do. 

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The first is Caliborn, who’s timeline has exactly one deviation from the Alpha–apparently caused by John’s retcon. This riddle’s solved easily enough:
Predomination doesn’t leave a ghost to appear in the bubbles at all.
When Calliope says she ate his soul, she means that literally. 
Caliborn’s cheating in the Alpha Timeline is indeed the only reason Calliope exists in the bubbles at all.

(This, by the way, explains a lot about the relationship between Caliborn’s soul and Gamzee/Arquis’ in the Lord English. He predominated over them, too.)

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The second is Vriska, who only has a single ghost in (Vriska). This is really weird, because we literally know for a fact she dies in more than one doomed timeline! As with the two Calliopes, I think this is down to John’s retcon doing some weird entanglement nonsense to Vriska’s quantum existence.
The point is: Where others have a palette of possibility, Vriska has two extremely polarized halves. Schrodinger’s Vriska. 

Important to mention that just like Eridan, the structure of the Alpha Timeline that limits potential Vriskas is IMPOSED ONTO HER. Vriska didn’t want anything about the way she was raised or where she was born. She didn’t ask John and Terezi to retcon her into this bizarre state. Both Vriskas, like the rest of the cast, are rolling with the punches LE has seen fit to give. 

Except for Gamzee.

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Hussie literally tells us Gamzee never dies. His single non-Alpha Timeline death in [S] Game Over is retconned by John, and Hussie suggests it straight up doesn’t count. But that presents a problem.

There are thousands upon thousands of Doomed troll timelines. How is it that Gamzee specifically never ever EVER dies? Well, there’s only one real way that a Non-Time player can survive a Doomed timeline, that we know of:

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Dream self merger. By going to sleep as the last player present in Sburb, the Doomed Rose from Davesprite’s timeline triggers a game mechanic that ends her timeline completely and merges her consciousness with that of Alpha Rose through their dreamselves. 

If Gamzee survives his doomed timelines, this is the only possible way how.
And collapsing all of his potential instances into a single Alpha identity certainly sounds like the reduction of possibility commonly attributed to the Rage aspect.
But what that means is that to move on to the Alpha, every Doomed Gamzee must inevitably either snap and kill all the other trolls, or somehow outlast them. 

And it means that if any Gamzee had EVER, in the entire spectrum of plausibility the Alpha timeline affords, EVER been inclined to rebel against LE–then we would know. Because somewhere out there, that at least Hussie could see, there would be a Ghost to show for it.

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But there isn’t. Similar in this respect only to Caliborn, Gamzee simply has no alternate deviations because he doesn’t want them. He chooses the path that leads to Lord English freely and willingly, over and over and over again. 

And like Caliborn…

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Gamzee does this because he wants to. 

Gamzee doesn’t BELIEVE he’s going to become his own God–he knows it for a fact. He sees it in Lil Cal’s mangled soul. And he embraces that truth wholeheartedly, throwing himself into the acolyte role from then onwards and presumably following instructions Doc Scratch gives him throughout Act 6. 

Which we can talk about some other time. The point is: Gamzee chooses all this. Whether or not Lil Cal causes him to is beside the point, because there is not and never will be any timeline where Gamzee chooses to resist. 

Gamzee is the ultimate in shitty cosmic nazi religious zealots, and devoted to the very power structure that causes every other character to suffer so. There are no mitigating factors for him as there are for everyone else but Caliborn.
At the end of the day, he’s evil.
Bad clown. Worst enemy. 

honestly the note dave finds summoning him to the roof always sort of read to me like different personalities trying to talk at once. “bro. roof. now. bring cal./where doin it man where MAKING THIS HAPEN” complete with different fonts, grammar, and text colors (black text, then red text). and caliborn literally says the first part in canon (tho he says juju not cal).

oh shit i never even thought about the different TEXT colors. Cal’s influence always has been marked by red text, so its no surprise. Sweet catch!

also compare: caliborn: HELLO DIRK. GuESS WHAT I WANT TO PLAY. THAT’S RIGHT. A GAME. DIRK I WANT TO PLAY A GAME. with dave’s bro’s comic that he drew: HELLO ROWLF. I WANT TO PLAY A GAME. I WANT TO PLAY A GAME. (pg 2465)

yes. Those are SAW references. The similarity in speech patterns is pretty obviously intentional, too. Hence why I don’t think its up for debate.

It feels REALLY awesome to have other people talking about this btw. 

no Lil Cal au. He’s just stuck in the air conditioner on the roof and cant influence jack shit. Dave has a good childhood and Bro isn’t a piece of shit. Gamzee doesn’t go crazy, Jack doesn’t rip his eyes out, all-around everything’s better.

tragically, the nature of the story is that no lil cal means none of the kids exist in the first place. i know this is just a silly au idea and its fun to consider those, but i hold pretty strongly to the alpha timeline’s immutability because the fact that the story HAS to go the way it does for Lord English to exist, and thus for the cast to exist since he creates their worlds, is in fact the very nature of Lord English as an antagonistic force and the core of Homestuck as a story.

I really feel the need to stress this because a lot of people seem to regard LE as a weak villain and I think its absolutely crucial to understanding whats to come. If you don’t understand Lord English, you don’t understand Homestuck. Anyone escaping Lil Cal is, by design, impossible. Dave could never have had a good life and Bro could never have grown up without Cal and both of those facts are true directly as a result of Lord English willing it to be so. And that’s evil. 

Also Gamzee doesn’t go “crazy”. He’s just an evil asshole. I’ll probably post about that over the next week–maybe even tomorrow if I find the time, but theres other stuff I want to write about then. Or maybe I did already? I think I might have.