i wanted to bring htis up bc you’ve been talking about Gamzee more lately and what Homestuck gets right, but i do not think you can approarch this subject without talking about what Homestuck did wrong: and that is writing nearly all its main antagonists with Black coding. Gamzee’s portayal did NOT get any better at this throughout the comic, and regardless of whether o rnot his motives ACTUALLY stem from mental illness that is the perception the comic freely states, which is peak antiBlackness

then theres the whole mess with Meenah? like, seriously, is there any way to get around that like, at all. the antiBlackness of Meenah’s portrayals. then the cherubim are associated with Voudoun and other Afrikan spiritualities, and no Calliope being a single exception to the trope does not excuse this one BIT it is seriously not okay and people like Shelby Cragg were helping with the writing of the Gamzee arc too and you can’t just ignore it :/ esp while praising SU which is guilty of similar

I am speaking from the bottom of my heart when I say I have no idea what you’re talking about. 

I’d heard criticism of Gamzee for being shitty mental illness representation, which I think is pretty valid. I know for a fact that Sollux is atrocious bipolar rep, as I’ve heard from friends with bipolar conditions. I don’t particularly think Homestuck is perfect art (a concept that is FAKE AS SHIT and doesn’t interest me), and I don’t mind pointing out the places it slips into unfortunate territory. 

But I’d never heard anything about Gamzee representing anti-blackness, and juggalos are plenty white from the admittedly little I’ve seen of them, so…you’d have to convince me there? Like, I guess maybe you mean the chucklevoodoos? Which MIGHT be fair but I think they’re pretty clearly a Rage thing, and generic Rage power is basically how I default to thinking of them.

Meenah and the Condesce I can see, but uh. Meenah’s not a bad guy or treated like one by the narrative, as far as I’m concerned? She is, if anything, a way more sympathetic take on a black-coded character. It’s kind of like arguing Bro/AR is a problematic gay predator trope– and by association so is Dirk, as far as I can tell? In which case, my answer would be
“No, Dirk is a noble figure and the counterweight to that image.” 

So since I don’t really understand how Gamzee factors in here and it seems to me the Condesce and Meenah exist as balances to each other, I can only really regard Caliborn’s Voudoun stuff as it exists in relation to Calliope’s, in which case I do think it’s fair to weigh the two against each other. 

I’m not black so it’s pretty much not my place to say? Feel free to send me links to a more structured argument re: Gamzee if you’d like to sway me, anon. He’s an evolving subject for me anyway. 

man I don’t think you can really say bro is brainwashed but gamzee’s just evil when you can argue that gamzee’s also possessed by cal. they even have really similar relationships to how he’s formed, ie part of their souls exist inside lil cal already. which is probably a good explanation for how lil cal is able to brainwash them when he doesn’t brainwash, like, dave, who is around him his whole childhood. idk, I just think gamzee’s more complicated than “evil ass hole”

As it happens, Gamzee has a line I never gave much weight to before noticing Bro’s SAW interest that I’m more inclined to take seriously now, that suggests Gamzee and Bro’s relationship to Cal WAS intrinsically different:

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But even if Bro is kind of a noble captor figure holding Cal back, I still wouldn’t think it excuses any of what he put Dave through. He’s still an awful dude.

As for Gamzee, here’s the main problem with reading him as “just” brainwashed.

Gamzee doesn’t require Lil Cal’s presence to go evil. In fact, Gamzee doesn’t seem to require ANYTHING to turn evil. 
But even if like, Doc Scratch ALWAYS teleports Lil Cal into Gamzee’s presence to trigger his personality shift, I don’t think it would matter.
The weight of the sheer SCALE of Gamzee’s devotion cements his place as an ultimately willing accomplice/acolyte to Caliborn’s Dark Carnival. 

And it kind of makes Gamzee fucking terrifying and a fantastic villain.

I’ll explain my reasoning here.

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We know for a fact that Gamzee snaps and kills all his friends in at least one Doomed timeline. This is the source for half the code used in the creation of Doc Scratch. There’s no implication that Lil Cal is involved here at all. 

But again, let’s assume Lil Cal was here again. It doesn’t matter.

Because there is canonically, explicitly, no timeline in the history of Gamzee where Gamzee ever, ever, EVER chooses to rebel. Gamzee Makara simply does not ever choose his friends over Lord English.  In any timeline. Ever.
How do I know?

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Lets talk about Ghosts for a minute. The fandom has historically kind of taken these guys for granted, and loose fandom consensus is that they aren’t coherent/who has what ghosts is arbitrary. This is incorrect!

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Pretty much everybody in the Bubbles that should have alt!ghosts does, including Meenah and Aranea, the two characters who’s alt!ghosts are typically presumed “Missing”. 

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This is important. The Ghosts kind of give us very low-key character development, and contextualize the characters for us. For example, Eridan is an absolute irredeemable bastard in the Alpha timeline. But in a God Tier iteration of themselves, Eridan and Feferi seemingly come to friendlier terms. In another, there’s suggestions Eridan makes up with Feferi and Sollux. In yet another, he seems to be Trans or exploring femininity at least.

The point is, there’s a certain fluidity to Eridan’s potential. Still terrible in the comic, but it’s important to remember that Eridan didn’t CHOOSE to be trapped in the meteor with Jack, or to be born to Alternia’s power system, or to be trapped in the Alpha Timeline. 

It’s important to remember these things because in Homestuck, someone with power–Lord English–deliberately and willfully chose those things FOR him. Eridan’s lives are lived in response to that imposed power structure.
These factors don’t redeem him completely necessarily

But anyway, the fact that the rest of the cast have coherent quantum expressions means there are only three real exceptions–three characters who either don’t have any ghosts at all, or should have more ghosts than they do. 

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The first is Caliborn, who’s timeline has exactly one deviation from the Alpha–apparently caused by John’s retcon. This riddle’s solved easily enough:
Predomination doesn’t leave a ghost to appear in the bubbles at all.
When Calliope says she ate his soul, she means that literally. 
Caliborn’s cheating in the Alpha Timeline is indeed the only reason Calliope exists in the bubbles at all.

(This, by the way, explains a lot about the relationship between Caliborn’s soul and Gamzee/Arquis’ in the Lord English. He predominated over them, too.)

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The second is Vriska, who only has a single ghost in (Vriska). This is really weird, because we literally know for a fact she dies in more than one doomed timeline! As with the two Calliopes, I think this is down to John’s retcon doing some weird entanglement nonsense to Vriska’s quantum existence.
The point is: Where others have a palette of possibility, Vriska has two extremely polarized halves. Schrodinger’s Vriska. 

Important to mention that just like Eridan, the structure of the Alpha Timeline that limits potential Vriskas is IMPOSED ONTO HER. Vriska didn’t want anything about the way she was raised or where she was born. She didn’t ask John and Terezi to retcon her into this bizarre state. Both Vriskas, like the rest of the cast, are rolling with the punches LE has seen fit to give. 

Except for Gamzee.

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Hussie literally tells us Gamzee never dies. His single non-Alpha Timeline death in [S] Game Over is retconned by John, and Hussie suggests it straight up doesn’t count. But that presents a problem.

There are thousands upon thousands of Doomed troll timelines. How is it that Gamzee specifically never ever EVER dies? Well, there’s only one real way that a Non-Time player can survive a Doomed timeline, that we know of:

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Dream self merger. By going to sleep as the last player present in Sburb, the Doomed Rose from Davesprite’s timeline triggers a game mechanic that ends her timeline completely and merges her consciousness with that of Alpha Rose through their dreamselves. 

If Gamzee survives his doomed timelines, this is the only possible way how.
And collapsing all of his potential instances into a single Alpha identity certainly sounds like the reduction of possibility commonly attributed to the Rage aspect.
But what that means is that to move on to the Alpha, every Doomed Gamzee must inevitably either snap and kill all the other trolls, or somehow outlast them. 

And it means that if any Gamzee had EVER, in the entire spectrum of plausibility the Alpha timeline affords, EVER been inclined to rebel against LE–then we would know. Because somewhere out there, that at least Hussie could see, there would be a Ghost to show for it.

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But there isn’t. Similar in this respect only to Caliborn, Gamzee simply has no alternate deviations because he doesn’t want them. He chooses the path that leads to Lord English freely and willingly, over and over and over again. 

And like Caliborn…

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Gamzee does this because he wants to. 

Gamzee doesn’t BELIEVE he’s going to become his own God–he knows it for a fact. He sees it in Lil Cal’s mangled soul. And he embraces that truth wholeheartedly, throwing himself into the acolyte role from then onwards and presumably following instructions Doc Scratch gives him throughout Act 6. 

Which we can talk about some other time. The point is: Gamzee chooses all this. Whether or not Lil Cal causes him to is beside the point, because there is not and never will be any timeline where Gamzee chooses to resist. 

Gamzee is the ultimate in shitty cosmic nazi religious zealots, and devoted to the very power structure that causes every other character to suffer so. There are no mitigating factors for him as there are for everyone else but Caliborn.
At the end of the day, he’s evil.
Bad clown. Worst enemy. 

honestly the note dave finds summoning him to the roof always sort of read to me like different personalities trying to talk at once. “bro. roof. now. bring cal./where doin it man where MAKING THIS HAPEN” complete with different fonts, grammar, and text colors (black text, then red text). and caliborn literally says the first part in canon (tho he says juju not cal).

oh shit i never even thought about the different TEXT colors. Cal’s influence always has been marked by red text, so its no surprise. Sweet catch!

One other big thing about Caliborn being into Saw is one of his themes. Literally a SAW theme, which is “Hello, Zepp” in [S] MSPA Reader: Mental Breakdown. (this isn’t a connection between bro and Caliborn, but a connection between Caliborn and the franchise) It’s a pretty big thing because Caliborn also controls how we see the comic sometimes (killed the author and takes over the narration at times)

I mean Caliborn’s interest in SAW, ultimately, impacts the entirety of the story. The Alpha Timeline IS Caliborn’s dungeon, as he puts the whole rest of the cast through horrific deaths for disobeying him in Doomed timelines and through terrible trials in the comic itself. The story of Homestuck IS in many ways Caliborn’s horrible SAW-esque fantasy, an inescapable dungeon of pain and suffering for the characters. 

I didn’t know about the “Hello, Zepp” reference. I don’t really like watching SAW, so I hadn’t heard the music. Thanks 😀

also compare: caliborn: HELLO DIRK. GuESS WHAT I WANT TO PLAY. THAT’S RIGHT. A GAME. DIRK I WANT TO PLAY A GAME. with dave’s bro’s comic that he drew: HELLO ROWLF. I WANT TO PLAY A GAME. I WANT TO PLAY A GAME. (pg 2465)

yes. Those are SAW references. The similarity in speech patterns is pretty obviously intentional, too. Hence why I don’t think its up for debate.

It feels REALLY awesome to have other people talking about this btw. 

bro showing up would be fuckin great because even though he is possibly brainwashed and definitely unfit for parenting he’s still my favorite guardian? he’s just so fascinatingly terrible. some things tho: dirk still has smuppets, so those aren’t on bro, those just seem like a dirk thing. Saw’s a cal thing probably yeah. but dirk also sends jake the strifebot, & yeah jake asked for someone to rumble with, but there’s like this go hard or go home thing both dirk and bro show in “training” matters

Jake didn’t just want someone to tumble with, he wanted adventures. Which is what Dirk set out to provide. I’ve written several essays on this. I don’t feel theres any evidence Dirk was as motivated by imposing training on Jake as he was by trying to give Jake what Jake LOUDLY said he wanted. 

If it was about training: Why not train Jane with lil seb, too? She was in as much danger as Jake, would also have to play the game, and was WAY less prepared than Jake was to begin with. So see, Dirk as this ruthless trainer figure just doesnt add up to me at all. 

Also Jake likes the brobot, it’s AR he actually had a problem with and Dirk wasn’t in charge of AR.

Also Dirk likes smuppets but smuppets aren’t….nefarious? Theres nothing problematic about smuppets as long as they’re not forced on a child along with snuff films, they’re just silly vaguely phallic puppets he likes lol. Know who else likes smuppets? Jake and Grandpa. Pa’s keeping an absolutely huge one stuffed in the basement–its in the background.

Bro has one distinguishing interest from Dirk, and it’s also the evil nefarious one: SAW. There’s little reason to ascribe it anywhere but to Caliborn.

revolutionaryduelist:

[4. Gnostic Myth –
Literally fucking everything. A Non-Exhaustive review.]

It’s honestly kind of weird to me how skeptical people are on this point, so before we dive deeper, let’s recap the sheer breadth of references to Gnosticism in Homestuck. 

Keep reading

Here’s our last essay in this series, covering quite a bit more of Homestuck’s gnostic influences and taking a look at what they mean for the execution of Act 7. This undercurrent has been pretty fascinating to uncover, particular for contextualizing Lord English, so if nothing else I hope you enjoy reading and letting me know what you think!

[Patreon] [Hiveswap Discord]

See you all again soon.

Keep Rising.

revolutionaryduelist:

2. The Neverending Story – 
Muse/Lord & 
The rules of Paradox Space

[Spoilers for The Neverending Story]

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I’m not the first to note Homestuck’s references to AURYN, the magical amulet from The Neverending Story. The symbol of the intertwined black and white snakes is directly referenced only twice in Homestuck’s story, and both times it tells us a mind-boggling amount about the nature and function of Homestuck’s universe. 

And even that only scratches the surface. So instead of starting off with Homestuck itself, let me tell you a little bit about The Neverending Story itself.

Keep reading

Here’s the post on Homestuck’s links to The Neverending Story, particularly as they concern Calliope, Caliborn, and their relationships to the story. Some additional details on Jane’s Lollipop and the nature of Paradox Space. 
Hope you enjoy, and let me know what you think!

[Master Post]

[Patreon] [Hiveswap Discord]

Keep Rising.