dahniwitchoflight:

also totally forgot, wanted to make a note on something Vriska says about Echidna

VRISKA: Really, who knows what her real purposes are? They’re pro8a8ly totally unfathoma8le.
VRISKA: Echidna is kind of a 8ig Deal Denizen. One of the real heavy hitters, like that other guy… the really strong one with the ridiculous name.
VRISKA: She might even 8e the 8iggest deal. She’s the mother of all denizens. I mean, not in a literal sense. Like, I really dou8t she physically spawned them all.

in greek myth Echidna is literally the mother of all monsters, but that bolded line there is referencing Yaldbaoth, a gnostic concept, not a greek myth

and i think this is interesting that this is the way that Hussie is deciding to mix Gnostic and Greek myths, he’s making Echidna the literal mother in both myths

he’s basically equating her with Sophia the aeon of wisdom from gnosticism that spawned Yaldabaoth and was responsible for his creation by emanating without her partner aeon (reproducing on her own without her spouse essentially) which is where we get our word Philosopher, meaning Lover of Wisdom, Philos Love and Sophia Wisdom

and thats really cool! i just wanted to say that lol that Homestuck’s Echidna can be thought of as more of a mix between the Greek Echidna and the Gnostic Sophia! adds a new angle onto how to view her 😀 and makes sense as she has always been a denizen in Homestuck that has all this wisdom to give and greater knowledge of all the sessions beyond and likely to be the essential key denizen when stuff goes down

Makes me start to question my thought that Calliope would get Abraxas as the other more truly powerful gnostic concept, if Hussie is adding a gnostic connection to Echidna, who is already the space player denizen then it’s a high candidate for a version of Calliope to have her as a denizen as well!

Caliborn as one half that was stunted in growth has Yaldabaoth the stunted god thrown out of heaven Lucifer analogue

The cherub that is the true merger of Calliope and Caliborn has the Abraxas, as the ultimate god merger of everything

and a Calliope would have Echidna, as the super strong mother space denizen with connections to Yaldabaoth directly made with the connection to Sophia as his mother

and I keep saying a Calliope because what I think is most likely is that Alt!Calliope is most connected to Homestuck Echidna which is better understood as Echidna/Sophia, powerful all knowing warrior mother goddess most in opposition to Yaldabaoth with the Sophia connections, while our Callie gets Abraxas, the true real one, what is meant to happen and the actual gnostic denizen who transcends both Echidna/Sophia and Yaldabaoth!

I love pretty much all of this-the link between Echidna and Sophia has never felt more explicit, especially with Alt-Calliope as a manifestation of the “Holy Ghost”.

though I disagree with our Calliope having Abraxas as opposed to Echidna. Part of this is that I think Jake and Karkat fill the role of Abraxas partly through their relationships to both cherubs.

But to me, Alpha Calliope seems like the truest version of Sophia we get in the story, and that makes all the difference. She’s the Sophia who tries to “know the unknowable” (Cherubs playing Sburb is an explicit taboo) and creates the Yaldabaoth of Homestuck: Lord English.

banavalope:

revolutionaryduelist:

earth c concept: dirk and calliope writing fanfic together. dirk finally gets to read calliopes fanfics and she is very flattered when it turns out he loves them all. dirk and callie are best friends. thanks

Dirk and calliope draw fanart for each other of their fanfics and it’s so fucking wholesome

callie admits to feeling nervous abt sharing her fics because cherub smut is so alien and weird and Dirk PERSONALLY makes au-length snake tf smut one of the most popular and celebrated tropes on earth c just so calliope doesnt feel lonely or ashamed

its wholesome as fuck. literally

Do you think Caliborn “embellished” the facts in his “masterpiece”. Personally, I think yes.

Not really. Personally, I find the very idea that he did tiresome, because people only ever seem to use it to downplay the canon dirkjake built into it.

As things stand, there’s just no real reason to think so from a writing perspective. Like yeah, ok, unreliable narrators are a thing in Homestuck. But that logic doesn’t really work to just discredit whatever point a character makes that happens to be contentious.

There has to be an in-character or in-universe reason for a character’s perspective to be discredited, or it’s just bad writing. And I don’t really agree Homestuck is written badly! You might know this about me by now.

So focusing in on Caliborn.

image

Caliborn is quite aware of the Alpha Timeline, and the role he plays in it. He’s also pretty much the only character who actually likes the Alpha Timeline, and revels in his coming existence as Lord English.

image

He’s explicitly okay with and willing to endure whatever negative consequences are necessary to get him to that point, and he thinks he and his actions across his timeline make him the hottest shit ever to grace paradox space.

There’s no real reason to think he’d knowingly lie about events in the Alpha Timeline–especially the events that result in the creation of Lord English–because Caliborn is on record as thinking all of that is RAD AS FUCK! Including Jake beating him up, since its what leads to Lord English having his very name.

image

This comes through in the Masterpiece. Caliborn is noticeably excited to share these events with the audience, and ultimately pleased with the result of the event–he’s using it as a form of self-aggrandizement.

So if someone tells me they think Caliborn is lying about the Masterpiece, my immediate question is how–and why? And most importantly, what is there in the story to contradict or replace the Masterpiece, if we can’t accept it as part of the story?

As of right now, there isn’t anything. I wouldn’t be surprised, for example, if the Epilogue happens to cover the Masterpiece or part of the Masterpiece, and follows the Beta kid’s release from the Juju and/or the Alpha kids being picked up by John after the end.

We were viewing the Masterpiece from Caliborn’s perspective, so there could definitely be more to see after his particular role in the story is finished. I just don’t think that means Caliborn was lying, per se.


image

This is kinda unrelated but I’ve been thinking about it so here we go. This is basically the same as people dismissing Calliope’s exposition on the Classes–in that a critical source of exposition on a certain area of the comic, with no equivalent anywhere else in the text, goes disregarded because of some hazy claim of “unreliability.”

Remember how I said there has to be a textual reason for such a source to be disregarded on a particular point? Homestuck actually does do this with gendered classes, so it’s a good example of what I’m talking about.

Yeah, Calliope says classes are gendered–but Calliope is explicitly as susceptible to biological essentialism as anyone else in the cast, believing she’s incapable of red romance just as John believed he was incapable of black.

image

Think what you will of the message, but by the endgame Homestuck is loudly stating that both views are inaccurate. Calliope’s ignorance is contextualized in the text.

That she’d make certain assumptions about gender makes sense–especially if she’s working her understanding of the classes off the sample sizes in Homestuck itself–which she explicitly is, and which explicitly do have gender biases.

But that doesn’t inherently discredit every other statement she makes, especially since without the exposition she provides it becomes ridiculously harder to prove anything about Classes as a system. Almost as if the author included that text as a source of important exposition or something.

What character in HS do you think has the most tragic story arc

revolutionaryduelist:

At the moment, I guess I’d say Caliborn by default, or maybe Gamzee. I’m not convinced anyone else’s character arc qualifies as tragic, outside of the guardians/ancestors who are tragic by design so I think counting them would be cheating.

Homestuck seems dire for a bunch of the cast right now, but Homestuck also isn’t over, and I’m more optimistic than not about the final fates of most of the cast. So for now I abstain my opinion on most of them, until we know more.

Actually I changed my mind, definitely Alt!Calliope. She’s pretty fucked and didn’t deserve it.

Commanding Aspects

arrghus:

So the Time Aspect connects a lot to death. That’s a fairly widespread notion. Specifically, Time connects to death to a large extent because the Alpha timeline is an incredibly brutal construct, hurting both those who follow it and those who choose to deviate from it. But the Alpha timeline is a construct of Lord English.

https://medium.com/@RoseOfNobility/apotheosis-and-creation-myth-2257d7bf5854 (scroll down a fair bit)

So Lord English, the Lord of Time, has redefined the Aspect of Time to suit his needs. Huh. Has Calliope, his equal and opposite, perhaps done something similar?

Now, I don’t have much evidence of my theory, I’m not even sure evidence is all that possible to accrue for such a thing, but, well, in the Gnostic origins that Homestuck draws upon, the physical matter of the world is often disparaged, seen as the flawed design of Yaldabaoth, devoid of meaning. We see this reflected in the Aspects, Void, the Aspect of irrelevance, confers great physical ability on its heroes, as does Rage, the Aspect of misery and meaninglessness.

Yet Space, the most physical Aspect of them all, is heavily associated with art and beauty? Beautiful clothes, fascinating sciences, even the Vast Croak, described as the most wondruous thing of all. Clearly, then, the physical world is not entirely lost. It can be filled with meaning, with glory. It has potential, even in a story so heavily centered on the internet and the exploration of ideas.

Certainly, Calliope loves the world. Certainly, she loves to draw its inhabitants, to speculate upon its mechanics. Certainly, she dresses herself in the trappings of its peoples, and speaks endlessly of their glories. Certainly, she acts to inspire the alphas to love the world with her in her communications with them.

Certainly, the last command of her alternate self was to partake of reality, to enjoy the fruits of hers and everyone’s labor. To “have fun”.

Certainly, Calliope in her symbolic sense embodies the audience, with their arts and their theories and their cosplays. Certainly, the story of Homestuck, without its audience, would be a lesser, stranger thing, not to mention mostly unwritten, given how much Hussie inspiration Hussie has at times implied he takes from his audience.

There is an outline here, in the certainties. An outline of a theory. A suggestion of Calliope’s grand influence on the story, of the way she shapes reality every bit as fundamentally as Lord English, and not merely by shaping him through his hatred of her.

But that theory is not yet certain, and I do not know precisely what form it would take, were it to become such.

question, I’ve heard you mention how the alt. calliope timeline was the result of John’s retconning, but i don’t see how that could happen. I’m just curious on your thoughts on it

Aranea says as much on this page:

John getting the retcon powers and making [S] Game Over “Unhappen” certainly qualifies as an improbable glitch in causality. It’s essentially the same as a controllable Scratch, it’s just that John is doing it himself.

More to the point, no other source is given for Alt!Calliope’s existence in the comic. So occam’s razor suggests this is the understanding the comic wants us to have.