So Joey is born March 5 right? That would mean she’d have a fuchsia symbol. You previously stated that the colors of the true signs kind of inspire the other sign of that color with their aspect. Which would mean that there is a life aspect tied to joey. Now the funny thing is that the sign of PIPIO (= Fuchsia Sign + Prospit + Light) looks a lot like a flashlight and is also called SIGN OF THE SEARCHER. What do you think about that?

It’s interesting as hell, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable calling it more than conjecture. That said, I’m very curious: Do we know when Jude was born? It’d be fascinating if this actually was consistent. 

soooo, with the new aspects descriptions and the traits they are focusing on and putting in the spotlight as major defining traits of those aspects, do you think you’ll reconsider Joey as Life now instead of Light? (and Jude as Light instead?)

I hadn’t really gotten to Jude yet at all–he still seems like a Doom player, but now I’m more uncertain about all of them.

I have been reconsidering Joey as a Life player pretty heartily, actually, BUT…I think in the end, at least so far, it’s only left me more sure she’s a Light player. 

But the reason why, I think, suggests some new infomation relevant to how the Classpect system works. I’m curious to know what you’ll think about it! 
And since I’m about to record this in video form and it’s pretty overwhelming and difficult to talk about, I think it’ll help to get my thoughts in order somewhat, so I think I’ll do some prep here. 

My logic goes something like this: 

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Xefros is a Rage player. Looking back at Act 1, it’s actually all there in his Page behavior! 
While Xefros himself isn’t angry or upset, he does continually frustrate, anger, and confuse Joey, essentially giving/serving her Rage (in my reading of Knights/Pages, of course).
What’s more, eventually Joey’s anger stops being directed at Xefros and starts being directed at Dammek and Alternia at large, on Xefros’ behalf.

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In this reading, we can understand Dammek keeping Xefros away from the sopor slime as “training” to be a form of serving him Rage, too–the Sopor Slime just keeps trolls away from the chucklevoodos, and the chucklevoodos have already been equated to Rage before. Xefros has been given Rage, to his own benefit.

I had figured that, if Xefros was a Page of Time, he’d eventually gain a Warrior to defend/fight for him through his communion powers–Xultan filled the niche perfectly. Seemed like a solid way to get Xefros to a Brain Ghost Dirk-type power boost or whatever. But Joey is ALREADY one of Xefros’ champions at the end of Act 1, and Xefros got her there mainly through Rage. Pretty solid echo of how Jake won over Dirk initially, or how Tavros won over Vriska/Aradia/Terezi (obviously, all of these to varying degrees of success).

So yeah, Xefros as a Page of Rage checks out. One critical difference, though: Jake and Tavros were already inclined to think in terms of Hope/Breath respectively at 13. While Xefros apparently has a considerable Ragey influence on Joey, he doesn’t seem to be thinking in Rage terms much himself. In Act 1, Xefros’ conscious THOUGHTS center around…

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Time. It’s not just him, either–Dammek has some pretty hefty Breath implications, especially once you consider that the hoverpad he took from Xefros is essentially an object of detachment and flight. But we know Dammek is a Blood player, as opposed to Breath. 

The bottom line is, there’s just too much DRAMATICALLY CAPITALIZED TEXTUAL EVIDENCE linking Xefros to Time and Dammek to Breath to be outright ignored.  We don’t know either way with Joey, but she certainly thinks lot about both Life and Light, and one of them presumably has to be her actual Aspect.

The way I see it, there’s two possibilities at play at this point. It’s totally possible, of course, that all of that stuff was just misdirection, or just stuff we weren’t meant to take seriously or read into. 

But if that’s the case, I’m not sure the fandom can ever actually accurately deduce a character’s classpect based on canon clues. Xefros has some Rage behavior, but it wasn’t telegraphed nearly as strongly as the Time stuff.

So maaaybe WP doesn’t particularly care for this type of speculation? Maybe the Time stuff was just like, general writing, and we’re not really meant to dig into the lore here and try to pick out clues and Figure Shit Out, like I thought we were being invited to do?

That would suck for me, but I would accept it. Hiveswap still has a stellar narrative with plenty of background lore to dissect and explore, Classpect stuff to look through or no. I’d be cool with just waiting for the narrative to tell us what’s going on outright, too.

However, until we know for sure one way or the other what WP intends, I’d like to keep regarding the Classpects as a coherent system with rules that can be figured out and considered in assessing characters’ natures and potential character arcs.

And there’s still the other possibility:

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Calliope told us player abilities can manifest “in defiance with their Aspects” under the right circumstances. We’ve seen this in Homestuck, most clearly with  Rose, which a lot of the fandom (you included, if I remember right?) has parsed under inversion theory.

I differ in that I parse it through Roleplay. It seemed to me that players attempting to act out a different Class, or being forced into acting as one, was always the source of these Aspect “shifts”. 

So Rose manifests Void not because Witch is Seer’s natural opposite, but because Rose is interested in Magicians and wizards and wants to take an Active role in Changing the fate of the session.

But I wasn’t sure if we were dealing with Aspect inversion, ie: the player simply switching to the opposing Aspect, or if the Aspect side of the system was even more flexible and players could focus on any other Aspect in the spectrum, too. 

This is the first clear indication I’ve seen for the latter interpretation.
My current best guess for why Xefros has all this Time focus and Dammek has all this Breath focus is that the blood castes, on Alternia, are somewhat stereotyped in favor of their corresponding Aspects. 

There’s a cultural bias predisposing members of each Caste to think in terms of the Caste’s True Sign Aspect. This is why Xefros implies all Indigos are super strong, but Equius’ introduction says he’s strong because he’s kind of a freak. 

It’s why Goldbloods are the class used to power ships and the like, but Sollux is a mutant, and Vriska says psiionics are a nasty variant of power that goldbloods only “sometimes” have. I reason this based on the naming structure the system itself uses, as sleuthed out by @wakraya

And it sort of makes sense, given Lord English nor Doc Scratch would care to figure out the nuances of every individual troll–the founders of the hemospectrum as it exists on Alternia only had the profiles of the twelve trolls Gamzee and Equius knew to work with, while guiding society’s development of the Caste system.

And this is a fascist, exploitative system, so I would’ve found it odd if it was actually good for the characters to begin with, to be honest?

So if each Sign in a Caste is linked to a different Aspect, but the Caste as a whole is stereotypically connected with or pushed into conforming to one particular Aspect…

Then we’re looking at a world where a lucky few would have the social advantage of being told about their own latent potential through their Aspect
(not that they couldn’t confuse themselves perfectly fine, if they were so inclined), but the great many were kept confused by stereotypes, and the contrast between their inner worlds and their own biological powers. 

This conflict would be different for everyone, and would become even worse factoring in the variety of roles further imposed by society–like Dammek and Xefros being forced into Butlering. 

The end result? A society where almost nobody is given the time and space to figure out who they truly are, and where almost everyone is playing against their strengths in some regard. As a bonus, almost everyone is stressed out, because they’re not allowed to do what would naturally make them happy. 

Sound like Alternia to you? It does to me.
And fostering that kind of widespread societal confusion certainly sounds like something you’d want to do if you were Doc Scratch or the Empress. What better way to keep the threat of uprising at bay? 

As for how it relates to Joey, well–if Aspect roleplay is a thing, then Rose might well have gone grimdark at least partly in imitation of Roxy. And if A. Claire is indeed a mutant clone of Jane Crocker like I suspect, then suddenly Joey has a profound admiration for a Mom she desperately wants to be like.

Hilariously, that means her Maid behavior might be roleplay instead of her actual Class, so I might be debunking myself here! But I’m a little more inclined to think her admiration is manifesting as an interest in the Life aspect in general. 

The key thing for me here is that her interest in Life has a potential source, that we can put under scrutiny going forward. Her interest in Light has no such apparent source, other than her own nature. Hence why I’m still falling on Light as her innate Aspect, at least for now.

As for Jude–I don’t even know right now, there’s too much going on. I’ll have to revisit him once the dust settles and I have some answers I’m more confident about. He certainly seems like someone chosen to suffer in Act 1, though, man. Poor kid. 

I might be reading too much into it, but it seems like a pretty solid way to use Classpects to tell us about the violent and cruel nature of Alternian society. Whether I’m right or wrong about any of this, though, Act 2 is going to be
very interesting. We stand to learn a lot!

do you think the canon test ignores the nuances of the aspects?

Not particularly? The descriptions there just seem to describe the personalities of players bound to particular Aspects, rather than describing the Aspect itself. It’s a different focus, which means this is all new information for the most part–we can add it to the holistic view of Aspects that has been developing over time.

Like, the Light description doesn’t even mention luck. This is clearly not meant to be the definitive, final, COMPLETE GUIDE to Aspects and what they represent. It’s a brief overview meant to inform and entice newbies as to the workings of the system, and I think it does a pretty good job at that!

homestuckexamination:

Homestuck Classes

Heya guys! So Hussie’s update with 288 Troll Symbols, canon talk about the Aspects and an actual god damn Canon TEST took everyone by surprise, and everyone has been talking about the possibility of him eventually making a full God Tier Class and Aspect test. While this would be an amazing thing and we’d finally get closure on what Classes do What and What they relate to canonically, it’s likely we won’t see this for a long while.

So since I had some Request to do God Tier Analysis stuff but I wasn’t sure about doing so, since I’d be paraphrasing a lot of @revolutionaryduelist‘s work, I thought… Why not make a God Tier Class test myself? Definitely not Canon, but updated with thoughts and analysis post Act 7, and to be paired with Hussie’s Canon Dreamer-Aspect Test to give a full Mythological Role to those looking for it!

I have yet to begin the analysis and make the appropriate questions (And given the scope of the Class System, it will likely take over 50 questions…), but I wanted to put the word out there so you know what I’m working on, and also to ask if you’d know of a good Website or way to make this test? I’ve had my eye on Quotev, since I recall seeing some Classpect Tests over there a while ago, but I have no idea if it’d allow for something with so many Questions or if there’s any restrictions I should be aware of, or if there’s simply a better place to put this on.

Feel free to tell me what you think about this!

Oh dang this is flattering. At the very least it sounds like fun while we wait for the Canon Homestuck Class test to appear before us–but of course, I would say that. :3

I wonder if my thoughts on Classes will hold up to the canon test once it debuts? I’m pretty confident, but either way would be awfully exciting :333

could you explain more about the Xefros acting as a Page of Rage thing? I find it really interesting!!

I’m not really gonna go into too much detail here. This prompted me to just round up most of what I’ve been meaning to talk about with regards to Homestuck and Hiveswap into a sort of news/lore roundup video going over roughly what I think of where Hiveswap and Homestuck are at as stories and intellectual properties, a revising of my Xefros Classpect post in video form, and some other interesting tidbits peeps might have missed, or that new fans might not even know about!

It’ll be fun, I think, and I’ll try to get it out pretty quick. Stay tuned. 

do you think it’s possible joey or jude have different aspects than you initially thought, too? and if you think we’ll ever know for sure what theirs are?

It’s possible, but not much in canon has jossed either one, yet! It’s not like we got any canon text for Xefros–we got handled a cheat sheet telling us “actually this is where he’s at good luck”. 

Whether they’re different or not, I’m certain we’ll eventually know all their Classpects pretty definitively, yeah.