Tag: classpects

well with that logic, everything could be defined by a lack of void, but I don’t really think thats what we’re supposed to get from it. Thee’s more to it than that, of course. And the reason the aspects tangle more than that is because every aspect is intrinsically related to every aspect in some way. For example, time and doom both deal with death, light and mind both deal with knowledge. that overlap creates situations where multiple aspects work together to create all the nuances of a concept

i think that escaped my inital point somewhat but it’s far more interesting territory to discuss just how exactly every aspect relates to all the others, more than just its opposite

I agree completely, yeah. I figured Time and Space were standouts re: Void just because they describe physical dimensions, if that makes sense? Like. Destroying Space doesn’t really create Time, and in the Furthest Ring the absence of one means the other is also non-existent. 

But if someone’s Hope is destroyed, it doesn’t typically result in “nothingness”–it results in negative emotions. Either fear, despair, sorrow, or Rage, or so on. All of that stuff is under Rage’s purview, and so it makes sense for me to say the absence of Hope is Rage to a degree, and vice versa. 

Do you see what I mean by Time and Space not necessarily having that relationship? It seems different in a subtle way. 

Hey in terms of abstract aspects forming the universe, what would you say to the idea that the presence of each aspect is defined by the lack of its opposite? E.g. The presence of void is the absence of Light and vice versa. It works better with some aspect opposites than others, but i think you could make a case for each.

I think that’s pretty much baked into the Ying/Yang existential duality concept that both the Classes and the Aspects revolve around, so yeah, I agree.

I think it’s probably more complicated than a simple conflict between the two “paired” complementary forces, though. For instance, this isn’t really true about Time and Space at all–Void would define both of those forces in contrast instead. 

There are definitely some cases where this is true, basically, but if the twelve aspects are elements of thought that describe all of reality in unison, it’s likely there’s contexts where they’re paired or related in infinite different ways. So I do think it’s useful to think more broadly than “X always marks Y”, if I’m making any sense at all? 

hello yes i would like your opinion as a fellow classpect goblin on my theory that one of the differences in a rogue and a thiefs powers, is a thief takes something and the victim looses it while a rogue takes something without necessarily causing the other person to loose it, ei a thief of mind could have possession, they loose there mind while another person has control, a rogue of mind could copy skills and fighting styles while leaving the originals midns in tact

hypeswap:

hypeswap:

vriska literally kills a monster in openbound by stealing its light and making its luck really bad EDIT: wait i musread um on mobile hold on

okay now that i’ve read this correctly:

not quite the way i interpret it! i think that both classes can do it both of the ways you described (though, yes, thieves are more likely to take something for themselves and rogues are more likely to share it)

for example: vriska rifled through tavros’ memories without his permission while they were briefly merged, stealing that information from him

roxy using the powers of void to steal herself away from condy’s prison on derse would have obviously resulted in her absence, too

Another good example of this is the Condesce stealing all the “skills” and “powers” of the various blood castes; a friend of mine pointed out that skills fall pretty solidly under the purview of Life. Specially w/ trolls since the blood castes seemed to divide up their powers and shape their lives under the Condesce’s regime. 

didlspower4evah replied to your post: you mentioned in your article that you’re not sure…

I always assumed it was because the passive classes are more predominately feminie (♀) and the active classes are generally masculine (♂). The Venus has a crossed prong while the extension of Mars is just a line.

This idea, though, I think I like it better than my old assumptions.

My leading guess was Hussie subverting the subtle culture linkage of the feminine with the negative and instead putting the light onus of negativity on the masculine instead, which would square with Caliborn and all. But yeah I like this a lot too. 

you mentioned in your article that you’re not sure why Calliope denotes active classes with (-) and passive classes with (+), in opposition to the yin/yang dichotomy. her interpretation of active/passive classes benefiting themselves/others can be seen as removing(-) and adding(+).

Hmm, like, removing and adding it to the world? That would make sense–Jake gives himself Hope for example, but in doing so he does diminish the amount of hope Jane has re: getting to be with him. I can see that. I’ll have to give it more thought and see if it holds up over time. 

I see your reasoning on that idea, but my issue is the idea of abstraction, which was brought up in the critique but which you did not, imo, address. At that point, any action by any person could be seen as selfish. Dirk wants to live up to Dave’s legacy because he doesn’t want to feel like he failed Dave; Dave wants to serve Rose’s guidance because he can’t value himself without serving others. ‘Selfish’ becomes meaningless because in the end, no one in the world can escape themselves. (1/2)

(2/2) And if everyone is selfish, then what’s the point in making an argument about anyone? I see in this point a recurring trend in the arguments: the focus is on proving a theoretical concept at the expense of psychological nuance. Pages are active, active is selfish, therefore all actions of a Page are selfish. Yet I feel, from Dave’s final comment to Rose about character arcs, that all these characters are meant to be more complex and messy than the abstractions of their mythological roles.

Yeah, talking this stuff out with Viko has made me realize I’ve been overemphasizing the selfishness/selflessness angle a bit more than I think is accurate, or at least like, clearly posited in the comic. Not every single behavior an Active player engages in is necessarily selfish, and vice versa for Passive players. In particular, I think Viko raised a very good point about Jake’s dying for Jane. The Masterpiece/Dirk moment I feel is somewhat different, specifically because it’s so coded with romantic subtext. 

I don’t think the distinctions are meaningless, but Alt!Calliope and Caliborn are the only characters I’d say really hold to the Selfless/Selfish mentality absolutely (well, besides Gamzee, who never seems motivated by anything but Caliborn when he has motivation to speak of). Everyone else is, by and large, more complicated. Which makes sense, since engaging with others and having that push and pull of wills is bound to bring out different facets of an individual. 

So I think I’d say as with everything else, the Active/Passive describes a tendency or predisposition with Selfishness/Selflessness, too. It still seems like a pretty consistent established element, but I think it reads a lot stronger as one element that also takes others into account–such as how proactive vs. reactive a player is, how self-focused vs. group-focused they are, the “benefit oneself” vs. “benefit others” behavior in terms of mechanics, and so on. 

Makes for less concise and easily transmitted analysis, but then Homestuck inherently resists reductive takes, so that makes sense. 

So yeah, I’ll readily admit I’ve gotten carried away and made some pretty poor overwrought arguments–It’s a bad habit of mine. Honestly the strongest arguments for Jake being selfish are his treatment of Jane early on during the session (which directly parallels Horruss) and what he does when power-boosted by Aranea: Make Brain Ghost Dirk exclusively to make himself feel safe and protected when he had the power to pretty much win the whole session by himself, if he were so inclined.  

Since those points together describe both Jake’s largest impact on the session over time, AND Jake’s impact at his most effective being to his own benefit, I’m pretty comfortable resting Pages’ active status on those particular points, as far as Jake’s concerned.

That said, with regards to your statement

I see your reasoning on that idea, but my issue is the idea of abstraction, which was brought up in the critique but which you did not, imo, address.

I’m not super sure what idea you’re referring to. As such, while I tried to address what I think you’re getting at, I’m not super sure that I did. Feel free to follow up if you have lingering questions or if you were getting to something else? Otherwise, thanks for giving me the chance to clarify my position on this front. 

have you read any of theworstpersonintheworld and crisesofsanity’s classpect analyses? personally i’ve always found their interpretations the most convincing, but it’s interesting that you also gave Knight/Page the “Serve” verb. i’d like to hear what you think of their ideas on what aspects are, too.

Mako @theworstpersonintheworld deserves undiluted credit for pointing me to the Serve verb, as a matter of fact. And by association he also deserves credit for putting me on the path that led me to understanding Homestuck’s Classes in terms of Unifying Myths/Archetypes, and by association the roleplay system with the classes. I don’t agree with him on all the pairings and verbs but I agree with him on a lot and he’s great to talk to about all of it.

crisesofsanity I’ve never heard of but I’ll check them out soon! 

I really like the your interpretation of classpects and what they mean on a character to character basis. All of your fanfiction is also really excellent with the most consistent characterization that I’ve seen in many a year. You are like the wise elder of the Homestuck fandom in my eyes. Btw will there be an essay on the aspects themselves after you are done with the classes? Or will it be all the characters instead?

Thanks a ton, I’m happy to hear you’ve enjoyed my writing so much 🙂

I mostly think fandom has the Aspects figured out, so I’m pretty sure my writing is going to remain focused on other subjects for the moment. Tex Talks does a better job of breaking new ground than me there anyway, his videos are great pls check them out.

All I really have to add to the Aspect discussion is that they should really be understood as the obvious counterparts to the Gnostic Aeons–like the Aeons, the Aspects are Ideas. They come in bonded pairs, and are meant to create reality together. There’s definitely other analogs to Aeons in Homestuck: Rose, Dirk and Calliope all act out or relate to Sophia pretty strongly.

But Sophia herself is pretty much synonymous with the aspect of Light. And understanding the Aspects that way gives them a sense of divinity that adds weight to them, I think. It also makes it clear the Gnostic stuff suffuses every inch of Homestuck, as if that wasn’t already obvious enough. 

What to remember when roleplaying Dirk Strider

whinesaboutrp:

Yo, yall, I saw someone in the cherubplay tag asking about a guide for this and I like to think I’m pretty good at Dirk roleplaying, so let’s go.

I was going to try and keep this away from most “fanon vs. canon” stuff, but as a heads up, with both Striders it’s fairly impossible to avoid talking about that because they put up such fronts that get read as their actual character. (More on that in a sec.) 

While on the one hand you have the misreadings of Dirk that result in desperate, clingy, whiny “looking for doms” bed starfish, on the other hand, you have the suave, domineering, puppeteer Dirks who control literally everything their friends do, are always in control, and definitely never panic in a bad situation. While both of those misreadings are bad, I’d actually argue the second is more OOC than the first, and this is a post about why. 

image

Anyway, this is gonna be a really long post because I like talking about Dirk and his complexes way too much, so hit the readmore.

Keep reading

Dirk might not be a Knight, but he has all the same hallmarks as Dave of desperately armoring himself in “being cool” to avoid letting people see the raw underbelly underneath. If you come out of Homestuck reading that Dirk believes he’s the best thing since sliced bread, then … well, then he fooled you. You saw his front, accepted that for all he is, and moved on, and somewhere, the metafictional concept of Dirk probably let out a sigh of relief and wiped sweat off his forehead.

I’m reblogging this specifically because I think it’s relevant that Dirk acting as a Knight is objectively correct? Like, not just in terms of his characterization echoing Dave’s–in the sense that Dirk actively tries to roleplay a Knight throughout his narrative, in his emulating Alpha Dave. 

So I think it’s pretty cool that someone picked up on this element of his characterization now that I think it’s like…a literal, explicit game mechanic, consistent not just in Dirk but throughout all of Homestuck (and Hiveswap, considering what we’ve seen up until now). 

Classes are cool, y’all. Also Dirk Strider owns and I love and will protect him.