ymawgat:

revolutionaryduelist:

ymawgat:

(@revolutionaryduelist I’m starting a new post cause the last one was getting a bit long)

For now I’d just be curious to know: In what way would you say Karkat “exploits” Blood? He’s not really cognizant of where his strengths lie even by the end, and yet he routinely solves conflicts by establishing bonds almost magically.

And what about Jake in the Masterpiece? There might be ambiguity to Karkat and Tavros (I’d argue Tavros’ behavior is much more in line with exploitation, but I already did so I won’t here), but Jake’s final act in the story is wielding his gay hope bubble against Caliborn as a weapon, which he does specifically because he, himself, decides he wants to save Dirk.

That seems much more in line with exploitation than with allowance to me–it’s willful, conscious and pre-determined.

Keep reading

real quick cuz today’s a busy day but 

Keep reading

Also I’m definitely interested in hearing your take on the contrast between Seer/Mages and Knights/Pages! I should be clear that I think the Classes, like the Aspects, can resonate in all kinds of different ways. 

I really don’t think the nuance ends at what classes are Active/Passive pairs, or what the key verbs are. So i’m always interested in hearing people’s takes on how they’re connected, regardless of disagreement over the pairings I think they’re still relevant and interesting. 

Cool! I’ll write it up when I get the chance, but for now I’ll respond to a couple of things you mentioned.

Keep reading

Haha I appreciate it, but all of Homestuck is personal to me. It’s incredibly hard to upset me in general, and even if I *were* to get upset, I would try to consider why I was upset and deal with it. 

I’m not trying to advance and insist on my version of Homestuck, and I actively strive against letting my emotional investment interfere with my view of the comic.

I don’t like using the word “objective” because the concept as it applies to this is inherently false, so instead I’d say I’m interested in what Homestuck, as a complete, cohesive work, adds up to and tries to say in totality.  I part from the starting premise that Homestuck is coherent and meaningful and has things to say. I also think it’s ruleset is applied consistently–it’s just more complicated than it seems like at first glance.

So yeah, I’m invested in Dirkjake. But that doesn’t mean I want to steer clear from being questioned about it and challenged on the basis of the canon–and in those terms I’ve faced much harsher rebuttals than you, anyhow 😛

Me being invested in Dirkjake means I want to push the fandom and make it aware of alternate perspectives and new views. I want conversation and if necessary rhetorical conflict, not stagnation in the status quo reading of Homestuck as mediocre and Dirkjake as vague/ambiguous at best and mediocre at worst. 

I want those things because I think Dirkjake–and Homestuck at large–deserve it. I think these are better stories than they’re given credit for, and I’m trying to put words to why. 

If I were doing anything less than trying to revolutionize the way people think about Homestuck and putting my own views of it on the line to be put under scrutiny in the name of advancing a view of it that stands a chance at getting people excited about the comic like they used to be, I wouldn’t be trying to make a job out of it. 

But I’m not going to accomplish real change in the fandom’s thought sphere solely through pleasant conversations (this conversation so far has been extremely pleasant btw). I have to be comfortable with being challenged and questioned if I want to change anything. 

And if I can’t argue a point as concisely and completely as possible by using the canon as my source, then it just means that Homestuck isn’t exactly what I think it is–either because it’s not clear enough about making the points I’m trying to argue to give me evidence that holds any real conviction, or because I’m misunderstanding what it’s trying to say altogether. 

In both cases, that information would also be valuable to me. 

Honestly I should prob put this in my about or something. It would help rhetorically if people knew where I’m coming from with all this. 

Anyway, 

I do think however, that in homestuck, in reference to classes, it implies “use against the will of the aspect”?

Yeah, that’s what throws me. I don’t remember anyone in the comic so much as implying that. The closest thing I can think of is that by saying passive classes act “through the will of the Aspect”, maybe some have taken that to mean Active classes work against that will?

If that’s the root of the view, then I’m skeptical. Mainly because I think framing it as Active players being a Yang force on their Aspect is cleaner, and more in line with the Ying/Yang mentality Calliope explicitly establishes. 

That doesn’t imply that they’re acting against the Aspect’s will–it implies that the Aspect is reactive to their wills, and moves to accomplish what that will desires. 

Maybe there’s an implication or statement that I’m missing somewhere that implies that more “contentious” relationship though, in which case I’d appreciate having it pointed out to me for sure. 

AR’s actions aren’t a manifestation of Dirk’s powers, his existence is, and we don’t know that Dirk can’t control BGD, especially since the “I failed” line to John seems to imply (at least to me) that he was attempting to do more than just flying full pelt towards the medium?  

I’ve always interpreted it that BGD was one of Dirk’s soul splinters?

Like, in the same way that a waking and dreaming self are paradoxically the same person and also different people, BGD was both Jake’s subconscious puppeteering Jake’s perception of Dirk and an actual sentient being with his own consciousness and stuff?

As for AR: Exactly.

AR’s existence is a manifestation of Dirk’s Heart, and AR is also a Prince of Heart as such. Dirk’s struggle is that he technically has the power to stop his other Self, but instead keeps allowing him to do what he’s doing because he feels he owes it to him due to the moral implications of his very existence.  

As for BGD: This is correct. Dirk is explicitly one of Dirk’s splinters:

TT: I don’t think one of Dirk’s splinters could exist nearly as well in anyone’s mind other than yours.

But that doesn’t mean he’s a vector for Dirk. He’s essentially Jake’s imaginary friend, who takes the form of Dirk as expressed through all of Jake’s thought patterns about him:

GT: So im talking to myself! Thats kind of stupid!
TT: Well, yeah. But not quite.
TT: You could view me as a projection of the real Dirk within your mind, as expressed through all of your thought patterns about him.
TT: So I’m kind of a splinter of his corporeal self who happens to live in your awareness. 

GT: There is something that feels kind of weird about this. You being in my head… its a little messed up!
TT: What’s messed up about it?
TT: You were the one who put me here, with your intimate understanding of all his mannerisms and predilections.

The root of BGD’s behavior isn’t what Dirk himself would do, but what Jake thinks of him at any given time–and what Jake thinks is colored by AR conflating and muddying his and Dirk’s personalities. But even so, Jake himself draws a distinct difference between BGD (and AR’s) behavior and Alpha Dirk’s:

GT: No offense but I kind of get the same smartass vibe from you as i do from the responder.
GT: Like har har i have the same basic personality as dirk but without any accountability or anything so let me just be kind of flippant and mess with this jake fellas head!
GT: You know what im saying?
TT: Yes.
TT: That’s a surprisingly decent observation about me.
GT: Yeah see i think i maybe did a little TOO good of a job brain cloning you? This is way too much like talking to the REAL fake dirk.

And that divide grows wider later on. What Dirk likes about Jake above all else is Jake’s faith in him, and Dirk breaks up with Jake and talks about how he thinks he was toxic and bullying to him. 

So if Dirk is actually in control of Brain Ghost Dirk at all, wouldn’t his priority upon contacting Jake be, like, apologizing or something? Or trying to find out what’s going on in the session while he’s trying to fly back in after getting zapped out by Jade?

But Brain Ghost Dirk doesn’t do any of that. Instead we get:

DIRK: You’ve never really believed in anyone your whole life, and you know it.
DIRK: Everything’s always about you. Don’t you remember? You already had this epiphany, dingus.

DIRK: Will you stop crying?
DIRK: It’s reflecting poorly on both of us.
JAKE: (Sorry.)
JAKE: (*Sniff.*)
DIRK: Hey.
DIRK: Did you shave your legs? 
JAKE: (No i think the magic god tier fire burned it all off…) 
DIRK: God damn. 
DIRK: They’re so smooth. 
DIRK: A car could swerve outta control on those gams. 

Which is…a pretty drastic difference in mindset and characterization.
At the very least, you’d expect Dirk to use his connection to Brain Ghost Dirk to do recon or try to find out what’s going on, but he doesn’t do that.

And it’s hard to imagine Dirk flirting with Jake after the speech he gave Jane, let alone calling himself Jake’s boyfriend without having talked to him yet. Especially since we know that throughout all this Dirk is carrying around the view of himself that eventually comes out once he talks to Dave.

If you think Brain Ghost Dirk is his own different, separate Dirk, then sure. But he’s still simultaneously a reflection of Jake’s mind, and linked to it. If he was acting against Jake’s will in any way or doing his own thing, wouldn’t the comic need to telegraph that somehow? 

Hence why I think Occam’s razor leads me to think BGD is just accomplishing what Jake wants to get done, and thus his creation is Jake benefiting himself. 

Sure but like, if the Hope was only being controlled by Jake, then why would it expand out in any direction other than at Caliborn?

I mean, Caliborn is a Time player, so creating a bigass field he can’t dodge doesn’t sound like a bad idea to me.  But really my answer to “why a Hope bubble” is that that’s how Hussie wanted to present his powers. 

And I don’t think the Masterpiece presents Jake as wholly in control of his powers–seems to me like in this timeline it’s likely the first time he awakens them. A really big deal is made of the fact that Jake gets absolutely furious about Caliborn beating up Dirk, and that he wants to save him, and that the outburst exhausts him. Seems like a climactic moment of personal development to me. 

I will, however, note the fact that the Hope field encompasses the other Alpha kids too, and while it hurts Caliborn, it doesn’t hurt them–Which is suggestive of some degree of control. 

I’d also note that the most Passive player–Alt Callie–is able to precisely create a Black Hole conciously and of her own accord. That is precise and deliberate the way Aradia and Jade demonstrate their powers is. 

uu: AS A LORD OF TIME. I THINK I’M GOING TO MASTER TIME. NOT WITH MY BRAIN. WHICH WOULD BE TOO HARD. BUT WITH MY INSTINCTS.
uu: LIKE IN A WAY THAT WORKS WITH MY NATURAL IMPULSES. SUCH AS MY AMBITION. MY WILL TO COMMIT MAYHEM. MY DESIRE TO PUNISH THOSE I DESPISE.

Caliborn, in contrast, subjugates the Alpha Timeline without actually having to think about how–he does it through pure willpower and desire, and leaves controlling the minutiae to underlings and proxies. He isn’t particularly thinking in terms of precise control–he just sees what he wants and gets it. Time works it all out for him. 

So I’m not sure the level of direct control the classes exhibit is really the determining factor in how Active/Passive they are. It seems to me to rely much more on achieving their own wills vs. benefiting the wills of others. 

Anyway that’s all for now cause I got kinda sidetracked today but I might have more to say later. Curious to hear your responses!