HERALD OF THE POST-APOCALYPTIC POG ECONOMY- Jude Harley, the SEER of DOOM

When you say you’re going on hiatus, that means you ramp up your posting massively, right? I was going to leave this by the wayside but I am, lucky for you guys, I’m still too sick to record. 

Plus the Xefros and A.Claire posts are doing really well and frankly winning over the fandom is my best shot at long-term stability and things changed for the better for me in a big way recently, so I have the time to get out a couple more of the things I’ve really wanted to say before I start focusing on video–these will all be useful scripts for me soon anyway.

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Let’s talk Jude Harley, who has already given us a likely Class and a definite Aspect. And who knows–maybe he’ll lead us to a bit of prophecy on the threats our heroes will face in Hauntswitch? Maybe, maybe not, but either way it’s clear I was doomed to make this post from the start.

So let’s dive right in, and let’s start with the side of Jude’s title I’m surest about: His affinity for the Aspect of Doom.

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If Jude’s psyche is concerned with anything, then it’s concerned with death, risks, threats, and the rules you follow to avoid them. While not exactly cynical, Jude is certainly cautious and wary. Even his interest in aliens and cryptids frames them as mysterious threats to watch out for–his shirt isn’t depicting a simple alien, but an alien abduction.

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He keeps a flare gun because the chance of a life-threatening emergency is a basically constant presence in his mind, and his interest in POGS is linked to his belief in their eventual post-apocalyptic value. Jude sees the worst in the world, and he prepares for it.

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Apparently pretty well, too! I’m not AS sure that Jude is a Seer as I am that he’s a Doom player, but if this is a case of Class Roleplay, then it’s an oddly successful one. The big twist of the first half of Hiveswap is, of course, that Jude was right about basically everything–even if he muddled the execution a bit.

The Seer/Mage key verb–Know–is repeatedly linked to Jude’s biggest contributions, and it’s his foresight that keeps not just Joey but her beloved dog Tesseract safe. 

All of this squares quite nicely with the verbiage we can extrapolate for a Seer:
One who knows Doom (or through Doom) for the benefit of others.

And we should stress that “for others” part, because where his plans stumble, Jude himself is the one to pay the price. For Joey’s benefit, but also for ours–the audience’s– as his tragedy give us the deepest glimpse into his psyche and character we get during Act 1.

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As @curlicuecal ‘s excellent post on Jude tells us, Jude’s pigeons actually each reflect his relationship to one of his family members, and how he experiences the loss of each of them in turn. Of course we start off with Frohike, apparently Jude’s favorite. Jude is devastated by Frohike’s tragic death, but nothing about it necessarily links the bird to A.Claire except context.

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Langly makes things far clearer. When Jude finds himself abandoned, his fury is outright vicious. He makes it clear that he regards this as both betrayal and abandonment, an act of cowardice. He also alludes to being unable to communicate his anger properly and needing to suppress the emotion in order to focus on the task at hand.

Given that we’re talking about Jude, who basically ALWAYS has a task at hand, this all reads as a clear analog for his feelings about Pa. Emotional repression is something of a hallmark of the Harley line–John, Jake, Jade and Jane are all known to dabble in it. If he’s this upset when a bird abandons him, how does he feel about his own father doing so?

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All this loss had already gotten to him before the attack on the Harley manor–Joey refers to all of this stress on Jude growing bad enough that Roxy took him to a doctor.

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And the losses of his birds leave Jude isolated and desperate–he begs Joey to protect Byers and refers to him as “all he has left”. Not long after, he begs Joey not to go near the portal, saying he can’t lose her, too.

Byers, of course, is the bird that represents Joey in Jude’s heart, and he leaves with her when she’s abducted. However things work out between him and Dammek, for the time being, Jude is now alone. 

And maybe worst of all is that this always seems to have been the plan, because Jude is the victim of Act 1′s titular Kansas City Shuffle.

In order for a confidence game to be a “Kansas City Shuffle”, the mark must be aware that he is involved in a con, but also be wrong about how the con artist is planning to deceive him. The con artist will attempt to misdirect the mark in a way that leaves him with the impression that he has figured out the game and has the knowledge necessary to outsmart the con artist, but by attempting to retaliate, the mark unwittingly performs an action that helps the con artist to further the scheme.

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Given that we know that Scratch was expecting Joey, and that he is involved in the events that have put her here, we know for a fact that the swap between her and Dammek was always the plan.

Jude assumed the cult wanted the Cherub Portal for themselves, and that may well be true, but it’s his very defense of the thing that leads Joey right to it–and so, right into Scratch’s plans.

In this regard, Jude’s fears have come fully to fruition, as his knowledge of Doom helped the aliens who abducted his sister in the first place. Jude’s shirt is not just a mark of interest, but a prophecy of the fate Jude himself was doomed to witness, and Joey to experience.

And here is where it gets interesting (and somewhat speculative), because Jude’s Classpect is only half as relevant to his family as it is to his relationship with the source of all their troubles, the true antagonistic force behind both Hiveswap and Hauntswitch.

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Homestuck’s Doom players were always marked by a duality motif, largely centered on Red and Blue. This was fitting for the trolls, as everything that Beforus and Alternia were doomed to was ultimately linked to the Red/Blue bomb that would eventually lead to the creation of the Green Sun.

Notice how once the sun is created, Sollux’s red/blue motif expires, and reaching the sun is basically the end of his relevance to the plot.

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But even then he maintains a focus on Black/White duality. As is fitting of a Doom player, because Duality seems to be one of the biggest fundamental principles of Paradox Space. Everything in Homestuck comes in pairs:
Aspects, Classes, Class Verbs, Players–all of it.

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Duality is the rule, the boundary–just as death is a rule we all must follow, just as some fates are unavoidable. And so Jude, like the Captors, is similarly marked by a motif of duality. Only instead of the Red/Blue that the Captors are bound by, Jude is marked by the Red/Green color contrast linked to all Cherubs and, specifically, the cherub responsible for these games’ events:

Lord English.

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Jude’s Red/Green motif directly references Lord English at least once, when the red and green marbles are used as the Lion’s eyes. Yaldabaoth–the evil, flawed creator God that Lord English is partly based on–is commonly depicted as a serpent with a lion’s head. And this lion has its gaze planted firmly on a globe of Alternia, reflecting Lord English’s indomitable control over the planet.

It goes further.

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Whether or not the Cherub portal is a literal doomsday device, as has been hypothesized, it’s undeniable that every member of the cast is doomed.
Both Alternia and Earth are doomed by Sburb in a matter of decades,
so Jude, Joey, Xefros and Dammek are all on borrowed time.

Hell, this even extends to Trizza, who must inevitably be ousted or killed as Heiress in order to make way for Feferi’s short-lived reign. And on both sides of the Portal, the fates the characters are being led to are tied to agents of the

Lord of Time himself.

Because while Joey and Xefros seem to be dealing with the nefarious influence of Doc Scratch, Jude still has his Cultists to deal with–and they’re likely more linked to Lord English than it initially seems.

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After all, The Condesce spent time on Earth before her dissapearance–perhaps enough to craft the perfect Heiress, but almost definitely enough to continue her habit of empowering clown-themed cults to carry out her agendas for her, just as she did on Alternia through Subjugglators and as she will on Alpha Earth through the juggalo presidents.

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And while we never learned about the cult of the Mirthful Messiahs in too much detail in the comic, they are described as being spread across the cosmos.
It makes sense to think they may be a smaller operation on the Beta Earth, where the Condesce spent relatively little time. But it is still altogether likely that they are already here.

And if so, Jude and his friends seem to be the only ones watching.


I’m really overwhelmed and grateful by the support so many have shown me, and excited to take posts like the one I did on Joey and this one to Youtube, where more of the fandom can engage with classpects in an accessible way!

You can also feel free to drop by and chat about this and other interesting Hiveswap and Homestuck topics in the r/Hiveswap discord!

Hope to see you soon, and until then–

Keep Rising!

[Patreon] [Hiveswap Discord]

What do you think Dammek’s obsession with making Xefros a butler is about? It would seem to me if Dammek wants to overthrow the hemospectrum, he wouldn’t be emulating an unequal class structure. I’ve read the theory that he’s secretly a highblood and is a double agent, but that seems unconvincing to me. Could it be because he wants to infiltrate a highblood place by pretending to be butlers? Any thoughts?

I don’t buy the double agent/highblood thing at all, it’s effectively random as far as I can tell. 

Dammek isn’t particularly trying to make Xefros a butler, though. Alternia does just fine at that on pain of death. 

What I DO think Dammek is guilty of is having Xefros serve him, specifically. But the exact way that’s fucked up seems a bit more nuanced, because Xefros describes his servitude to Dammek as Butler PRACTICE, and not getting enough practice is, again, literally lethal to Xefros if he isn’t good enough.
So I can see how both Xefros and Dammek might justify the treatment, though my guess is Dammek is probably too self-centered to think it through like that and most likely just sort of takes it for granted. 

Homestuck is extremely concerned with broad systems of power and how they affect individuals–even those who hate or try to fight the system. I think the reason why so many fans get hung up on issues of “Is Dammek good/evil” as if that’s a question that matters are sort of missing the point, which is that Alternia by design breaks kid’s abilities to have healthy relationships with each other. In this case, Dammek’s slight blood advantage is all it takes. 

is dammek going to be a good boy james we need to know for science

jamesroachmusic:

i beg of you. learn to accept that a good character doesn’t have to be a good person. lots of lovable characters are completely terrible. Dammek being a big piece of shit is what makes him interesting.

if him being terrible is too much for you, you also don’t have to like him though. I never understand how people get so wrapped up into characters that liking or disliking one will like… destroy friendships and stuff. Sorry I got kinda into this cause I get like a thousand asks that are literally like pleading with me to reveal some weird overlooked subtext about Dammeks shitty personality that suddenly makes it OK that he is completely awful to everyone around him.

Not every character is going to be perfect, or even like… acceptable. Maybe I’m just like extremely old here but.. isn’t that more interesting?

Tetrarch Dammek: Who’s This Douchebag?

just-outside-hauntswitch:

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This guy isn’t the face of evil, but he doesn’t sound the nicest either. Let’s get this analysis fresh out of the pan while the discontented buzz is still Hot™. Dammek has made 1 canon appearance – hurtling through space and time at ??? ???/??? – and has no in-canon lines yet, but we can still say a lot about him through environmental storytelling and dialogue. So, that’s what we’re going to do. This post will also contain some classpecting, so for those new fans out there, don’t worry if that confuses you, it most likely won’t be directly relevant to Hiveswap’s narrative and is just some legacy fan fun. 

EDIT: Sorry I just realized how shitty and compressed all of the images are, so I’ve added some captions. 

Keep reading

This is a pretty good reading that I agree with considerably. I have some context/insight to add to it that I’ll probably cram into my Xefros post, but this is good enough that I no longer feel the need to write an entire Dammek meta post myself, at least not soon. 

Suffice it to say, I agree completely. Dammek is almost definitely a Thief of Breath, and I’m excited to see whether the themes laid out for him in Act 1 remain consistent throughout the Acts & Hauntswitch.

EDIT: Whoops i wrote Xefros instead of dammek there. im tired

Extremely minor point of contention: Dammek’s politics are probably a little bit more anarchist than communist, given the symbol on his wall and his overall attitude, although I don’t think he has a developed sense of either since his worldview is extremely childish despite the overall goal of revolution being laudable. Under communism, personal property still exists in concept and practice–Dammek seems to be fudging the line between personal and private property for his own selfish ends here.

That’s a good point. I gotta be honest and say I’m not 100% informed on either my anarchist or communist theory atm, though it looks like I’m gonna have to brush up. Thanks for the additional nuance! 

What’s your ideas on Joey’s possible class? I think she’s a likely Maid of Light. I don’t have any screenshots, but I remember her saying she’s “not [dammek’s] maid” a few times, and also her saying that she’s not “made of time”. Also, her turning on the lights in her house and turning on the power in Dammek’s hive i think can be interpreted as her “creating Light”.

I agree. I have a few reasons to add “creating Light” as a reason for Joey, and I remember the Maid reference you’re talking about. It’s still SOMEWHAT possible she’s another class–I saw one reference to destruction, but she doesn’t feel like a Prince so I’m still leaning on Maid. But she’s definitely a Light player imo.

I need to get screenshots to make a whole post about it, but my classpect thoughts on the others are:

Xefros is absolutely a Page of Time. There were a fuckload of references to him as a Page already and at least one to Time, which are most of what I’ve got to compile.

Jude is PROBABLY a Seer of Doom. All of his knowledge ends up benefiting or acting through Joey, and she makes explicit reference to being impressed he actually *Knows* his stuff, with respect to all these threats and rogue conspirators he’s predicting. Of course, its still pretty early and there wasnt anything explicit there, so it’s still somewhat up in the air.

Dammek strikes me as a Thief of Breath. Not completely sure on the Thief part–all I have to go on is the fact that he’s so driven and the occasional references to him taking Xefros’ stuff. His passion for communism/non-ownership certainly sounds like “stealing” through “freedom/disattachment” to me for his own benefit, after all. So that’s my rationale there.

But SPECIFICALLY Dammek definitely seems like a Breath player, because he’s strongly referenced as having a talent for leadership and motivating/driving people–providing direction. The fact that Xefros’ classpect matches Aradia’s–Time doesn’t hurt, as Dammek’s analogue would Tavros, the Breath player.

On top of that, it sets up a somewhat interesting inverse dynamic to the relationship we saw between Vriska/Aradia/Tavros.
Where Homestuck’s cycle of revenge began with a Maid of Time getting revenge on a Thief of Light for the abuse of a Page of Breath, Hiveswap’s plot seems to begin with a Maid of Light beginning to heal the withered sense of importance of a Page of Time at the hands of a Thief of Breath.

Not entirely sure if this reading will hold up, of course. But The Dancestors demonstrated an affinity for this kind of karmic role switching, and Scratch seems to be managing the events of this story, to an extent–just as he managed the cycle of revenge. So it wouldn’t surprise me if it pans out. 

I think the thing most people are concerned about is that dammek will become another vriska. she was never fully redeemed, her pre-retcon self being treated as a joke for not being egotistical and getting feelings once she matured a little. She (retcon vriska) was never developed, keeping and building upon the horrible, horrible character traits that were seen as good in the stories eyes, and i think people are scared that hussie and the wp team will fall into that trap again.

That’s certainly a reading a lot of people have, and I think they’re completely wrong. 

(Vriska) wasn’t treated as a joke, Retcon Vriska was developed– in a totally different direction, not all character growth is positive–, and Homestuck isn’t over anyway.
As Andrew Hussie literally confirmed. Today. So I find the entire presumption that the story has said all there is to say about the two Vriskas kind of grating, honestly. 

I hope that doesn’t come off as antagonistic towards you, though, anon! I understand the viewpoint and for all I know you’re just voicing the fandom’s thoughts. 

But like. I’m not and never have been shy about thinking that the fandom has been really bad at reading Homestuck thus far, on multiple fronts. Which isn’t a slight on fandom! This thing has the density of the Bible–it makes sense that parsing it is going to take a lot of work, and it should ideally be a community effort.

But Retcon Vriska is set up as an analogue to fucking Lord English multiple times, explicitly and symbolically, and Terezi is currently en route to find her as we speak. This is a developing plotline, and it’s downright bizarre that the entire fandom has somehow endeavored to pretend otherwise. 

Possible Hiveswap spoilers, so only read this after you’ve finished playing I guess, But what do you think about the fact that Dammek has a camera in Xefros’ room? Like, what the fuck?

I’ve been seeing a lot of discourse about Dammek already so I’m glad I got this ask, haha.

I mean. It’s obviously, transparently fucked up? We know it, the narrative knows it, Joey knows it and loudly screams about it.
Dammek’s treatment of Xefros isn’t on the up and up.

This, by the way, makes perfect sense to me in a way. I don’t think this means Dammek doesn’t CARE about Xefros–I’m sure, after all, that Pa cares about Jude and Joey.
But caring alone does not make healthy relationships. 

On a related note, Xefros has numerous references to being a Page–I’ll be making a post compiling those soon–and Pages have a recurring motif of getting pushed around and “helped” by friends who care but overstep boundaries. To me, Dammek seems like an extension of the trend–the Vriska to Xefros’ Tavros, or the Dirk/AR to his Jake, so to speak.

What their relationship will specifically look like and how it will grow and evolve, of course, is still an open question. Which gets to the heart of how I feel on the matter:

I’m seeing a lot of people say they HATE Dammek now or he’s TERRIBLE and PROBLEMATIC or whatever at this point, and that seems like…really really jumping the gun to me?
It plain old doesn’t make much sense to build up all this outrage at a character whose flaws we’re learning about here, BEFORE HE’S EVEN INTRODUCED. 

Yes, Dammek is transparently, indisputably being an asshole. Dammek is also one of the protagonists of this duology, who will get at least four acts to grow and develop from the point where he’s being introduced. Obviously this is going to be a character trait that Dammek will have to grapple with and overcome one way or another, because that’s what good stories do: Introduce characters with flaws and challenges, put them through conflicts, and have them overcome them.

Especially since it’s not even like Dammek is like Vriska. There is legitimately and truly no future for either Xefros or Dammek that either of them want to be a part of unless Dammek succeeds at his wild ambitions, and he’s living in a fascist totalitarian hellscape, so there’s pretty good grounds for him to be as paranoid and intense as he is. Not to mention that he’s doing that while being…you know, a damn kid? 

We’re talking about a narrative where it’s altogether likely that literal genocidal maniac TRIZZA TETHIS will be redeemed, given she’s completely and utterly doomed by the system and timeline she’s in, so that people are SO pissed at Dammek for…being KIND OF A SHITTY DOUCHE at, what, 15? is…short-sighted, frankly. 

Can’t we focus on how nice it is that Xefros and Joey’s new friendship is already helping Xefros come out of that mindset? Can’t we look forward to character growth instead of being really really angry about INTRODUCTORY CHARACTER TRAITS? 

So like yeah I think it’s good to keep in mind that Dammek and Xefros aren’t the rosy best buds fanon imagined them to be. But spurring a bunch of outrage or w.e is just going to make the fandom really insufferable to deal with when they inevitably reconcile or come to new terms of behavior later, as with Dirk and Jake. I am begging to the spirits above we can avoid that grisly fate.

But can we avoid fandom’s deadly addiction to outrage points? Alas, likely not. 

PS: Relatedly, I have never seen a guy be more friendzoned than Xefros blushing on that deercat in my goddamn life. The fact that people are apparently complaining that that was ‘hetbait’ is hilarious, because Joey was the one with all the gay coding in this game, and she did NOT look interested that way. Just thought I’d say that too while I’m here.