hi! me and my friend have long considered Gamzee more as a plot device/deus ex machina than a character with an actual personality that makes logical sense. we were looking up Whistles (see MSPA wiki) and think that Gamzee is… apparently just a giant callback? A private joke? A character moved to the wrong universe, warped to fit the narrative? we’re going to get our hands on the actual book ASAP, but I figured if any blog could start meta discussion over it w/ owners, it was yours.

I will say that my friend @hussianphilosopher made some points about Gamzee I thought were compelling, and on my agenda is moving that little Tumblr post over to Medium with a few expanded sections on Gamzee and Damara.

I’ve known about Whistles, and yeah I agree that Gamzee is definitely a giant callback to that in many ways. But honestly I really don’t like the idea that any character in homestuck is just a plot device/makes no sense–Equius is an extended humanimals reference in a bunch of ways, but he’s still also a character who has depth and intrigue and a coherent personality, as Tex Talks breaks down excellently here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjZtB2i8vR0&t=50s&ab_channel=TexTalks

HOWEVER, If I were to accept that any character in Homestuck is contrived and nonsensical and exists only to be a joke, it would be Gamzee. It’s just that I believe that perception is intentional, and in itself part of his character arc. Tex Talks may help get across why I think so here, as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H7m23gkAe4&ab_channel=TexTalks

man I don’t think you can really say bro is brainwashed but gamzee’s just evil when you can argue that gamzee’s also possessed by cal. they even have really similar relationships to how he’s formed, ie part of their souls exist inside lil cal already. which is probably a good explanation for how lil cal is able to brainwash them when he doesn’t brainwash, like, dave, who is around him his whole childhood. idk, I just think gamzee’s more complicated than “evil ass hole”

As it happens, Gamzee has a line I never gave much weight to before noticing Bro’s SAW interest that I’m more inclined to take seriously now, that suggests Gamzee and Bro’s relationship to Cal WAS intrinsically different:

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But even if Bro is kind of a noble captor figure holding Cal back, I still wouldn’t think it excuses any of what he put Dave through. He’s still an awful dude.

As for Gamzee, here’s the main problem with reading him as “just” brainwashed.

Gamzee doesn’t require Lil Cal’s presence to go evil. In fact, Gamzee doesn’t seem to require ANYTHING to turn evil. 
But even if like, Doc Scratch ALWAYS teleports Lil Cal into Gamzee’s presence to trigger his personality shift, I don’t think it would matter.
The weight of the sheer SCALE of Gamzee’s devotion cements his place as an ultimately willing accomplice/acolyte to Caliborn’s Dark Carnival. 

And it kind of makes Gamzee fucking terrifying and a fantastic villain.

I’ll explain my reasoning here.

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We know for a fact that Gamzee snaps and kills all his friends in at least one Doomed timeline. This is the source for half the code used in the creation of Doc Scratch. There’s no implication that Lil Cal is involved here at all. 

But again, let’s assume Lil Cal was here again. It doesn’t matter.

Because there is canonically, explicitly, no timeline in the history of Gamzee where Gamzee ever, ever, EVER chooses to rebel. Gamzee Makara simply does not ever choose his friends over Lord English.  In any timeline. Ever.
How do I know?

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Lets talk about Ghosts for a minute. The fandom has historically kind of taken these guys for granted, and loose fandom consensus is that they aren’t coherent/who has what ghosts is arbitrary. This is incorrect!

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Pretty much everybody in the Bubbles that should have alt!ghosts does, including Meenah and Aranea, the two characters who’s alt!ghosts are typically presumed “Missing”. 

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This is important. The Ghosts kind of give us very low-key character development, and contextualize the characters for us. For example, Eridan is an absolute irredeemable bastard in the Alpha timeline. But in a God Tier iteration of themselves, Eridan and Feferi seemingly come to friendlier terms. In another, there’s suggestions Eridan makes up with Feferi and Sollux. In yet another, he seems to be Trans or exploring femininity at least.

The point is, there’s a certain fluidity to Eridan’s potential. Still terrible in the comic, but it’s important to remember that Eridan didn’t CHOOSE to be trapped in the meteor with Jack, or to be born to Alternia’s power system, or to be trapped in the Alpha Timeline. 

It’s important to remember these things because in Homestuck, someone with power–Lord English–deliberately and willfully chose those things FOR him. Eridan’s lives are lived in response to that imposed power structure.
These factors don’t redeem him completely necessarily

But anyway, the fact that the rest of the cast have coherent quantum expressions means there are only three real exceptions–three characters who either don’t have any ghosts at all, or should have more ghosts than they do. 

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The first is Caliborn, who’s timeline has exactly one deviation from the Alpha–apparently caused by John’s retcon. This riddle’s solved easily enough:
Predomination doesn’t leave a ghost to appear in the bubbles at all.
When Calliope says she ate his soul, she means that literally. 
Caliborn’s cheating in the Alpha Timeline is indeed the only reason Calliope exists in the bubbles at all.

(This, by the way, explains a lot about the relationship between Caliborn’s soul and Gamzee/Arquis’ in the Lord English. He predominated over them, too.)

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The second is Vriska, who only has a single ghost in (Vriska). This is really weird, because we literally know for a fact she dies in more than one doomed timeline! As with the two Calliopes, I think this is down to John’s retcon doing some weird entanglement nonsense to Vriska’s quantum existence.
The point is: Where others have a palette of possibility, Vriska has two extremely polarized halves. Schrodinger’s Vriska. 

Important to mention that just like Eridan, the structure of the Alpha Timeline that limits potential Vriskas is IMPOSED ONTO HER. Vriska didn’t want anything about the way she was raised or where she was born. She didn’t ask John and Terezi to retcon her into this bizarre state. Both Vriskas, like the rest of the cast, are rolling with the punches LE has seen fit to give. 

Except for Gamzee.

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Hussie literally tells us Gamzee never dies. His single non-Alpha Timeline death in [S] Game Over is retconned by John, and Hussie suggests it straight up doesn’t count. But that presents a problem.

There are thousands upon thousands of Doomed troll timelines. How is it that Gamzee specifically never ever EVER dies? Well, there’s only one real way that a Non-Time player can survive a Doomed timeline, that we know of:

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Dream self merger. By going to sleep as the last player present in Sburb, the Doomed Rose from Davesprite’s timeline triggers a game mechanic that ends her timeline completely and merges her consciousness with that of Alpha Rose through their dreamselves. 

If Gamzee survives his doomed timelines, this is the only possible way how.
And collapsing all of his potential instances into a single Alpha identity certainly sounds like the reduction of possibility commonly attributed to the Rage aspect.
But what that means is that to move on to the Alpha, every Doomed Gamzee must inevitably either snap and kill all the other trolls, or somehow outlast them. 

And it means that if any Gamzee had EVER, in the entire spectrum of plausibility the Alpha timeline affords, EVER been inclined to rebel against LE–then we would know. Because somewhere out there, that at least Hussie could see, there would be a Ghost to show for it.

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But there isn’t. Similar in this respect only to Caliborn, Gamzee simply has no alternate deviations because he doesn’t want them. He chooses the path that leads to Lord English freely and willingly, over and over and over again. 

And like Caliborn…

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Gamzee does this because he wants to. 

Gamzee doesn’t BELIEVE he’s going to become his own God–he knows it for a fact. He sees it in Lil Cal’s mangled soul. And he embraces that truth wholeheartedly, throwing himself into the acolyte role from then onwards and presumably following instructions Doc Scratch gives him throughout Act 6. 

Which we can talk about some other time. The point is: Gamzee chooses all this. Whether or not Lil Cal causes him to is beside the point, because there is not and never will be any timeline where Gamzee chooses to resist. 

Gamzee is the ultimate in shitty cosmic nazi religious zealots, and devoted to the very power structure that causes every other character to suffer so. There are no mitigating factors for him as there are for everyone else but Caliborn.
At the end of the day, he’s evil.
Bad clown. Worst enemy. 

no Lil Cal au. He’s just stuck in the air conditioner on the roof and cant influence jack shit. Dave has a good childhood and Bro isn’t a piece of shit. Gamzee doesn’t go crazy, Jack doesn’t rip his eyes out, all-around everything’s better.

tragically, the nature of the story is that no lil cal means none of the kids exist in the first place. i know this is just a silly au idea and its fun to consider those, but i hold pretty strongly to the alpha timeline’s immutability because the fact that the story HAS to go the way it does for Lord English to exist, and thus for the cast to exist since he creates their worlds, is in fact the very nature of Lord English as an antagonistic force and the core of Homestuck as a story.

I really feel the need to stress this because a lot of people seem to regard LE as a weak villain and I think its absolutely crucial to understanding whats to come. If you don’t understand Lord English, you don’t understand Homestuck. Anyone escaping Lil Cal is, by design, impossible. Dave could never have had a good life and Bro could never have grown up without Cal and both of those facts are true directly as a result of Lord English willing it to be so. And that’s evil. 

Also Gamzee doesn’t go “crazy”. He’s just an evil asshole. I’ll probably post about that over the next week–maybe even tomorrow if I find the time, but theres other stuff I want to write about then. Or maybe I did already? I think I might have. 

gamzee is the one with zero alternates because he’s the one that kills people before the timeline dies

Yeah, I do think that’s the implication. I like it honestly because it renders Gamzee in a WAY darker light as a villain, and really contextualizes WHY he’s so irredeemable to an extent beyond that of Vriska, or even Eridan. There -can be- different versions of those two, ones who aren’t so committed to their personas and willful destruction.

Not so for Gamzee. Like Caliborn, he’s committed to the Alpha Timeline through and through.

creative-classpect:

Why there is only one version of Aranea

So on my patron server we were talking about a lack of Serket ghosts. There are pretty much 0 alternates, with only 1 Aranea and 2 Vriskas (both are plot relevant)

I chalked Vriska up to Meta Thief of Light. Like how she took up waaay too much time in canon and everyone sweeps it under the rug as Thief of Light. That’s a meta use of them, how they effect a story and narrative.

It’s like how Gamzee destroyed falshoods, pretense, lies, and harsh realities. He was able to do the impossible.
It was literally impossible for him to have the hammer of zillywho
It was literally impossible for him to get to Jane’s planet
Etc etc
His nature as a Bard of Rage is a force in the Meta, in the plot

Jujus are LITERALLY plot devices

So with all of that we (us being me and @dheavenlymango ) figured out that there are no alternates of Aranea for this same reason

Ghost alternates exist because they are irrelevant. They don’t matter. They are the epitome of Stopped Actually Mattering
Aranea has been in the dreambubbles waaaaay longer than everyone else
We think she got rid of her alternates. In a Meta attempt to matter, she tried healing her other selves, but they went from being ghosts to straight up not existing. She became the only one, thereby repairing her importance

But, with that came a cost. This One True Aranea was her long shot. By trying to become relevant and absorbing her alternates, she learned the only way to truly matter was to be alive. She scrapped together all her other selves (thereby having a memory so vast that she felt like she has been there forever) and puts all her eggs into one Importance Basket. With only one Aranea, all her alternates are taken away and thus, she gains the power of Singular Importance

But, even with all of this, importance only means anything if you are living. Ghosts are supposed to be inherently worthless

That’s why she wanted the Ring of Life so bad and went so far with her schemes

It wasn’t just One Aranea acting out
It was the entire concept of Aranea has a meta force on plot to actually, truly mater and leave an impact

She bet everything on black
All her cards we down
Every single version of her was leading up to this Alpha Aranea to matter enough and be important enough to save the day

This is an interesting concept, but I’m sorry to say it’s undercut by canon.
There are other Araneas in the bubbles. 

They’re visible in ministrife: 

But there’s also some in Meenah’s army in the page with Karkat:

Your explanation for Aranea is actually pretty close to how I’d describe Gamzee’s quantum existence, though. Seems to me he manages to live to the end of almost every timeline and then go to sleep, so he can merge with Alpha Gamzee’s dreamself, the same way Dream Rose does. 

That would explain how he never dies in any timeline, and why he has no ghosts. 

I think Aranea does something similar, but only through virtue of being “lucky” and “kind of boring”, meaning she’s probably likely to live to the end of her timeline by virtue of not getting involved in many fights. So she has fewer ghosts, and her alpha self had quite a lot of collected knowledge, but that’s about it. 

Vriska’s an open question for me right now, but I like your description for her. 

Anyway, just thought I’d chime in. 

banishedquasiroyal:

it’s character fusion day over at @homestuckartists which basically means i can make cursed fusions all day long 🙂 anyway this is rozee and they use their seer/rage powers to sense fear as well as predict how shit can go, so they can, yknow, better destroy all hope for a good ending in their path (bard/light). they’re a joy at strilonde family reunions, tho–you should ask about their chili recipe.

i instinctually yelled “no” out loud when i saw this. this is the most cursed post

Force and Flow — Destroy and Create – optimisticDuelist – Medium

Here’s the first of the Class essays, where we go over the most intense Active/Passive dichotomy, putting these Classes on the furthest ends of the spectrum. 

The Key Verbs for these classes are Destroy and Create, covering
Princes and Bards & Maids and Sylphs, respectively. 

Quick disclaimer so I don’t get anyone’s hope’s up: This essay doesn’t include much discussion of Jane Crocker! Not because she isn’t relevant, but because I actually ended up writing this entire series because I needed to lay out my thoughts on Maids so I could get around to writing my essay about her. 

I’ll be linking to my Jane post at the end of this essay once it’s up, and this essay is pretty much required reading for it! So I think it’s worth checking out if you’re interested in her anyway. 

As for the rest, I just hope you enjoy.  The other two essays are already written, and I’ll be posting them over the next two weeks! 

They are available in their entireties for my Patrons, so if you can spare me a buck a month you can get these early if you decide you like them enough. Higher reward tiers will let you invite friends to the Discord so they can read them too!

Feel free to @ me, reblog or send me an ask with your thoughts on these first two essays. There may be some things I can’t answer as they will be answered in later posts, but I might use those as inspiration for what teasers to release from sections of the next two essays over the course of the week.

You can also feel free to talk to me in the Hiveswap Discord where I moderate and cry about Homestuck. I’m very interested in seeing how my thoughts stand up to scrutiny, so don’t be shy!

[Youtube] [Patreon] [Hiveswap Discord

[Active/Passive Masterpost] [Steal and Serve] [Know and Change]

Keep Rising.

Force and Flow — Destroy and Create – optimisticDuelist – Medium