betweengenesisfrogs:

[Content warning, as with my Jade post, for discussion of sexual assault, CSA, perceived suicide, and trauma, discussed slightly more explicitly than in the previous post, as well as abuse, alcoholism, and neglect in the context of other characters.]

So red-zora asked about my interpretation of Grandpa Harley from my Jade post, how my understanding of him as a character differs from mmmmalo’s interpretation according to his Manifestations Theory and how this all connects to Lord English. Very belatedly (sorry!), I’m finally posting my response!

I’ve wrestled a lot with how to approach the topic, since it concerns very intense emotional trauma that could be painful and triggering for many people, and I definitely don’t want to come off in any way hostile to mmmmalo (henceforth Malo), who by every indication is a really awesome, good dude. On the other hand, I’m sure plenty of people would be interested in my reasons for thinking the way I do, and this is a really good opportunity to clarify my thoughts. So read on if you’re interested. Let’s say I’m down to see how the conversation goes, and I’ll reserve the right to call it off if we need to.

First off, I want to make this clear: I’m not interested in excusing or ignoring any problematic actions by Grandpa Harley or any other Homestuck character. I mean, come on. This should be obvious from the fact that I spent my Jade post tearing him a new one, calling him a bad person, a bad parent, and someone who had a huge negative influence on Jade’s life. I’m more than willing to think he’s terrible.

I just disagree with some other Homestuck analysts about *why* he’s a bad parent. In figuring out Jade’s story, I’ve tried to draw on canon evidence as much as possible. I’ve tried to base my understanding of Homestuck on that evidence, and it’s that desire to be accurate to the work, rather than any desire to excuse anybody, that’s given me the interpretation I do. Hopefully that makes sense.

Here’s my thesis, then, based on a close reading of Homestuck:

Grandpa Harley’s characterization in Homestuck is based around absence and neglect, rather than sexual abuse. While it’s impossible to prove a negative, I find it very hard to make the case that he’s being depicted as a sexual predator. In viewing him as one, especially in “this is what’s happening in the story” terms, I feel like we lose track of what’s going on in his story, both in Hiveswap and in Homestuck itself.

Now, I should note that Malo’s Manifestations Theory doesn’t really deal with the literal level. As I understand it, it relies on symbolism and motif, mostly Freudian and Jungian, to draw new and interesting meanings out of Homestuck. That puts it in a different category than a literal claim about Grandpa – a reading based on symbolism is much harder to prove or disprove. At the same time, I still find symbols of ABSENCE, DEATH, and FANTASY to be much more central motifs for his character, essential if he is to be understood.

Below, I’ll talk about why, first on the literal/factual level and then on the symbolic level, and then finally get into my own feelings about Manifestation Theory and how I’d interpret Lord English under such a framework. Bear with me, this is going to be a loooong one.

Keep reading

I don’t have a ton to add here other than to say that I love this post. I myself have been struggling with wanting to address malo’s take on Grandpa-as-sexual-aggressor while also keeping perspective on my general enjoyment of malo’s work and Manifestation Theory in general.

I’m pretty much feeling like you put my jumbled, messy thoughts in order here. This is pretty much my answer to any inquiries about Grandpa-as-sexual-assailant, too. 

I’m likely to have more to say about this down the line (hopefully soon I can voice my thoughts on Malo’s own response to this post, and man I am excited that we’re communicating about this stuff as a community!), but for now just…bravo. I’m so glad you took the time to write this out.