dukeofriven:

revolutionaryduelist:

it’s sort of a mix of stuff. I pretty much think the biggest contributing factor to AR’s descent is the absence of his connections to the other Alphas, and I think that’s true of Bro as well.

I mean that’s pretty much explicit. All four of the Beta guardians are unsatisfied, unhappy, or a wreck in some way, and the unifying thread between them is the lack of the others. 
This is particularly pronounced for Bro, who is not just barely-functional like Mom and Grandpa are, but profoundly destructive to others and himself when lacking their companionship.

This isn’t JUST about Jake, I could say things as relevant about the ways Dirk needs Roxy and Jane, but I wanna keep this short and you all know what I’m about so let’s use Jake as an example. 

Dirk explicitly fears his own potential for darkness and hates himself for it and the reason he falls for Jake in the first place is because of Jake’s *faith* in him, in his kindness and caring and potential to do good. 

Dirk is drawn to Jake because Jake sees the value in him and sees the good in him and Jake being able to do that makes it easier for Dirk to see it in himself, too. So without that influence in his life at *ALL*, even less than what AR got? 

It’s easy for me to see how Bro would fall apart to the degree he does. For the most part, that’s all there is to say on the matter. 

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but. let me complicate the narrative for you a little. 

I used to be firmly of the opinion that Bro’s actions had nothing to do with Lil Cal and were all on Bro, and the latter’s still true. However, @jadedresearcher kinda turned my world around when they pointed out a simple fact: 

There are explicit, demonstrable influences that Lil Cal exerts on Bro, in terms of his personality growth at least. Namely, Bro and Dirk have a divergent interest.

Namely, the SAW-inspired snuff film/”I want to play a Game” stuff. Bro expresses an interest in it, but Dirk really never so much as mentions it. The Jigsaw aesthetic is Caliborn’s thing exclusively, and the only real narrative explanation it has in the story is Lil Cal acting as a transmitter for the interest. 

So having this in mind I think there is an extent to which Cal’s influence can be implicated in Bro’s descent. Not that it excuses any of his assholery. 

Lastly, here’s a bit of rarely indulged speculation:

We do already know Grandpa raised Mom, suggesting Grandpa may have raised Bro as well. Hell, Hiveswap even has a blurry as hell picture that may be of Bro facepalming that i can’t for the life of me find right now so i guess ill just post it later who cares, the point is

if it’s true Grandpa remembers the Alphas in some way, or if it’s true *Bro* does– given that he’s a Heart player, that seems plausible too–those could also be factors that isolated Bro and made him vulnerable to Cal’s influence?

That is, of course, purely speculative. It’s just one of many potential questions I’m excited to see if Hiveswap will explore. 

Hey hey hey – @revolutionaryduelist, I am normally 100% behind your point of view but I take serious umbrage at the implication that the WORLD RENOWNED EXPLORER-NATURALIST-TREASURE HUNTER-ARCHEOLOGIST-SCIENTIST-ADVENTURER-BIG GAME HUNTER-BILLIONAIRE EXTRAORDINAIRE lived anything less than a radical and amazing life.

“This is particularly pronounced for Bro, who is not just barely-functional like Mom and Grandpa are,”

Dude – it’s a stretch to begin with to call Mom barely-functional, given that despite being afflicted by one of society’s most misunderstood and poorly considered diseases, she was still able to succeed as a scientist and a mother (and I’d argue she was a lot better at being a guardian than Bro was – most of Rose’s tribulations about her mother were entirely projections on Rose’s part), but it’s outright absurd to call Grandpa Harley barely functional. Given what we know about him, he seems to have functioned better than 99% of all humans in ecorded history.

And, hyperbole aside, I think you’re hard pressed to speak with any kind of textual authority about what kind of interior life Grandpa may or may not have had – we see far too little of him. Other than expressing grief at DreamJAde’s death, we don’t know anything about him other than his known actions (unconditional love and support for Jade, including building her a magnificent dreambot) and what was filtered from Jade’s earliest memories. We’ve got no reason to think Grandpa wasn’t riddled with depression and deep-seated anxiety, but then we have no reason to think that he was, either. Either-way, calling the man who plundered every tomb and beauty parlour on the planet, invented a dozen wonders, and slew monsters like it weren’t no thang “barely functional” is just… incorrect.

To clarify: I meant emotionally. Mom and Grandpa are definitely successful, don’t get me wrong? I guess I just default to including the ability to enjoy life and engage with it in a like, balanced way…in my definition of functional? 

As for Grandpa’s inner life, I don’t feel that’s correct. Grandpa’s inner life is laid out for us about as richly as Mom’s, I think. It’s just told almost entirely through environmental storytelling and context clues. 

For starters, the man is a chronic hoarder. We see his hoarding all throughout Jade’s house, and it litters his manor in Hiveswap, too. Hoarding is commonly understood as a symptom of anxiety and depression. 

Mom and Bro hoard to some regards too, but with Grandpa I feel it’s particularly notable just through sheer volume of stuff. And he doesn’t just hoard, he arranges his hoards in a way that’s deeply symbolically meaningful to him. 

He sets up the Distinguished Houseguests in his living room and remembers enough to, somehow, sort them by Moon. He places himself by the fire in the center of all their attentions. He sets up entire rooms like shrines to each of the Alphas. He remembers Dirk not as a Prince, but as a Knight.

And, in my view, more tellingly, this is a guy who seemingly just…up and leaves his house and his two kids to raise Jade on an island? And while he’s doing that, he lets Jade play with flintlock pistols she almost shoots herself with a pistol:

Though I don’t doubt Grandpa loves Jade a lot (and I don’t particularly buy the more damning accusations going on about him right now) the dude is still guilty of serious neglect. Which, you know, kind of coincides with Jade’s Aspect pretty strongly. 

And when you look at what Grandpa is doing while, you know, not taking care of his Granddaughter who is playing with guns, things become telling.

The dude is literally playing pretend. We established through Hussie that the blue dolls represent Jane in his head, which means he’s literally making believe he’s with his friends on some level. 

This is Jake “Aggressively ignoring his problems” English at his worst. Just like you can see glimmers of Bro in AR at his worst, so too can you see a version of what Jake COULD become with no hope and no support network in Grandpa.

Which honestly I can’t blame him for too hard since the entire rest of his life at this point is “wait for the fucking Apocalypse and to die.”

And also, he’s alone. Jake relies on his sense of camaraderie to get by, and without his friends’ (perceived) approval his sense of place and self falls apart completely. This is a Jake who never had a chance to grow into a healthier attitude to his self worth, because he never had those friends to depend on.   

Even if he did know Mom and even Bro, he would have been in a position of power and responsibility over them. It would not be the same dynamic at all, now matter how much he cares about either.

I think Grandpa is an excellently crafted tragic figure, basically. The fact that Hiveswap not only kept this consistent, but also successfully built upon it through enviromental storytelling alone is maybe the biggest reason I’m excited for it.