chelonianmobile:

revolutionaryduelist:

banavalope:

I’m so excited you asked me this because I’ve been itching to analyze Tagora and the shit we learned in his friendsim route.

So I’m with you, I’m leaning towards seeing him as a Knight but I think I can still make a case for a Thief still, too, so I kind of caught between the two. But Knight seems most likely.

The thing that stands out the most in tagora’s route is his desperate need for control made most obvious when we step into his pristine hivehold. He also insists on guiding the conversation at every point (telling the reader what to do, where to sign, when to shut up), if we still run with the assumption Tagora has some type of anxiety then him needing to be in absolute control of his space and surroundings makes total sense. It all assists in keeping up his act that he has his shit together which I think is more for his sake than it is his reputation’s. We can tell he isn’t as in control as much as he leads us to think he is – evident when the blueblood barges in, an unexpected event that seizes Tagora up and totally throws him off, giving the reader their first opportunity to take the lead in the conversation. Briefly also when he goes to give the Reader his card and notices we’re an alien, he’s the only friend so far to have that sort of a panicked,hesitated reaction requiring him to recollect himself.

Long point short, he’s definitely coming across as putting up a guard. I don’t think anything about his confidence is entirely fake, I DO think he’s more fragile than he lets on.

Space is about creation primarily and in all meanings of the word, so there’s no reason creating an identity wouldn’t fall in the realm of this ESPECIALLY for a Mind-influenced Spacebound, if you subscribe to the idea the true signs’ aspects of each caste have a bleed effect over all their extended cousins. He surrounds himself with the idea of perfection and he hides in it, when something knocks away that facade he can’t handle it and almost neurotically breaks down (like in bad end).

Another thing about space is it’s relation with the Setting, which Tagora is using too for a lot of the same reasons outlined: keeping his hive obsessively clean, his desire to enhance his reputation, I think also Tagora’s route is the first to take us to so many different locations? The general meeting spot of all the sims at least twice, his hive, his bathroom, another part of town, and he’s still the one in command of the Reader finding themselves in these places (this one might be a stretch though). It’s not being lead like a Seer or Mage would, nor is it being controlled and created in the way a Witch or a Maid might do so, despite all my references to him manipulating Space. He’s controlling the environment in relation to him specifically to positively effect himself in two ways I can see strongest: protect himself and benefit himself.

To stand for the possibility of Knight first, Tagora DEFINITELY uses Space to improve and equip himself, as well as protect others (in a loose sense of the word) with it. I already discussed how he’s improving/equipping himself with space, and he does go about “protecting” the Reader with creativity (a Space thing) in offering his legislative services to “get the MC the justice he so craves (for a nominal fee of course)”, and in the good ending where he rolls with the rainbow drinker schtick then decides partnering with us is beneficial to both parties.

For the Thief spin, Tagora shows signs of taking creativity and the setting for himself. Literally he takes space from us in that he’s keeping us at a distance: he deters you – not in narrative but by reaction as a game player whether you had this reaction or not when playing – from wanting to talk with him because he’s charging per word & he doesn’t want you to touch him under any circumstance. He’s not willing to talk about himself unless you want to pay him for it, and he’s not going to tell you things like what his mantra is or how Alternian legal proceedings play out. Figuratively, he runs away with all of the Reader’s ideas, like in the good end like going along with the lie we fashion up about being a rainbow drinker (a clever response), the way he comes back to himself and puts himself into the bit alongside you is almost like he’s taking credit from that point for our ruse, and it all directly comes back towards him in a positive manner. He also wants All The Money, a common link between our two Thief examples in Homestuck.

Ultimately I think Tagora is most likely a Knight of Space but it’s hard for me to commit to it until I get more of his personality. The friendsim gave me huge Thief personality vibes, but the glimpse we get of Tagora potentially being heavily veiled under a persona he’s crafted makes me think Knight, too. Both of these classes have something to do with long roads of feeling comfortable with and accepting yourself for what you are (Meenah declaring that she’s just evil, Vriska as (Vriska) having personal revelations that change her at first until she confronts us with the idea that you don’t need to change in order to do the right thing or potentially even be seen as “good”, Dave and Latula both letting go of their cool guy guards and facing the trauma they experienced as just themselves with no armor ((well, Dave moreso in this regard than Latula))) more than any other class.

I’m not sure what to expect from Hiveswap, Act 2 or future friendsims and mini content, but if we’re gonna see any personal development for the individual characters I’d wager Tagora’s thing being about letting go of his guard and us seeing behind the sly little business boy act he’s got going on to whatever is genuinely underneath, be that just him accepting he’s really as clever as he makes us think he is and he just needs to let go of the act, or admitting that he’s actually much more anxious and overwhelmed and needs to feel like he’s in control of Space to make it through another day hinged.

this is fantastic analysis work that i think captures the two major sides of Tagora’s class behavior. Personally, I see him as an innate Thief, put into the position of roleplaying a Knight.

Legislacerators, as civil servants, seem to carry some inherently Knight-like connotation-much as Butlers do. Both are agents who “serve” others through intense labor and specific behaviors/skillsets.

Terezi, a Knight roleplayer, has her entire conflict revolve around her desire to understand her own Mind and its conflict with her perceived moral obligation to Serve Justice.

Interestingly, Tagora doesn’t seem as suffocated by his socially prescribed role as say, Xefros or Dammek (who also parses as a Thief forced into roleplaying a Knight to me). Rather, he seems to operate within the letter of the Knight’s confines, while pretty clearly espousing a Thief’s motivations.

Interesting stuff. There’s more to say, certainly, this is just a bit of a ramble on where I’m at right now.

His lusus tips the scale to Thief for me. Ferrets are so notorious for stealing small objects from their owners and rabbits and chickens from farmers that their very Latin name means “thief”. (”Mouse-killing smelly thief”, to be exact, though Tagora only smells of Lush products and we don’t know about the mice. Mustela putorius furo, if you’re curious.)

oh wow thats a neat detail i was unaware of! Interesting indeed. I was already pretty sold on him being a Thief (I guess there’s some room for Rogue depending on how he develops?) but this really cinches it for me! Sweet catch!