jake doesn’t find dirk threatening

mimsiical:

CW: discussion of sexual violence, sexual threats

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“jane, please stop! i’m scared!”

i will say that i’ve heard somewhere that jane could be talking about ectobiology here. and she could be. but i think her comments on jake’s body give it a sexual meaning, and also, if the roles were reversed and it was a guy saying, “your only value is being hot and i’m going to force you to have children with me,” it would not be ambiguous.

(also the prime time of jake’s life was after the brobot was in it which reveals that he never really found the robot more of an annoyance and inconvenience at times and certainly not as a sexual threat. because jake is scared right now, and i posit that if the robot really had been that kind of threat, jake would not be wishing to return to a time where it was in his life but i digress.)

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“no, why does everyone want to kiss me? aranea, stop!” 

context: this is after the conversation with crockertier jane. aranea has said before that she knows jake is attracted to her. she is about to “heal” jake and turn his hope powers up to maximum radiance and was going to do it by kissing him. jake Does Not Want to be kissed. 

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this is brain ghost dirk, during jake and crockertier jane’s conversation.

“look at our god tier pajamas. i look really stupid and it’s weird that my leg hair is gone! but i think your pajamas are decent.” 

(and then like twenty minutes later brain ghost dirk, who canonically represents jake’s subconscious desires and understanding, calls himself jake’s boyfriend.) 

like you don’t have to care or believe me. i’m sure i skipped some things but these conversations which all happen really close together have always really stuck out to me. but i’m just saying, please listen to what jake is actually saying and thinking. he’s not scared of dirk. 

spacekeiths:

whats-bronya-the-president-of:

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Named after two flightless things with wings, but he’s Derse and Mind. What’s this guy’s deal..?

The desire for flight parses to me as a Breath motif, which would be the Aspect all bronzebloods are drawn to by their caste if @wakraya ‘s Troll Sign Caste theory is correct.

Dammek himself exhibits some strong Breath imagery despite being Bloodbound–the hoverpad he steals from Xefros has a breath blue beam, for example.

So this reference feels like it’s along the same lines of Chahut Maenad’s last name, which is a reference to the worship of Dionysus, even though she’s a Hope player.

Their names and aesthetics seem to reflect the Aspect/mythology that Alternian society pressures them into, as much as their own True Sign aspects.

Anon with the book on gnosticism here, figured I should come off anon! After watching the latest Gamzee video, I thought it might be interesting (if not terribly relevant) to share a bit on Dyonisian cults/religion, more specifically their somewhat opposite cult/religion, Orphism. Orpheus is, in Grecian myth, the son of either a human man or Apollo, and Calliope (a name we all recognize), muse of heroic poetry. Orpheus was torn apart at the end of his life by the Maenads of Dyonisian fame.

Oh yes, I’m glad you brought this up. Me and the pals in the patreon discord talked about Orpheus a bit after this Dionysus stuff came out, and I think there are two solid ideas to consider.

The first is we should probably keep an eye out for an Orpheus themed troll in Hiveswap, since the story you mentioned is one of the more notable stories Maenads are involved in, so uh…we might be able to expect such a character might have trouble with Chahut. RIP @ that hypothetical guy, probably.

But it’s also possible Orpheus’ analogue is Already Here, in this guy:

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We won’t get to this in video for a while, so lets just get into it here.

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To start us off, yes–Orpheus’ dies at the hands of the Maenads, specifically for denying his former Patron God, Dionysus–who in Homestuck we can loosely understand as Gamzee in the flesh, and the Grand Highbloods and their ideology symbolically.

Gamzee kills Equius right when Equius turns his back on the Highblood’s ideology, and tries to stop Gamzee from murdering the lowbloods. So there are some legit parallels. An obvious issue here is that Orpheus is killed by the Maenads on Dionysus’ behalf, but there’s a couple things to consider.

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If we’re reading Rage as the aspect of Theatre, then suddenly the masks and identifiers Gamzee wears become much more important. By identifying himself with Nepeta’s cat hat, Gamzee evokes the Maenads’ practice of dressing with panther skins, as Dionysus greatly valued the animal.

Note that Gamzee’s polka-dotted clown pants now suggest the spots on a cat, like the Panthers’.

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Gamzee also enters the scene of Equius’ murder wearing Terezi’s shades.
Dionysian imagery plays into Gamzee’s treatment of Terezi already–Satyrs were known for “breaking down traditional values”, a good example of which is…Law.

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So uh. That puts a new spin on all of Gamzee’s mockery of courts of law whilst pitting Terezi against Vriska. And his literal breaking down of Terezi–emotionally across the meteor, and physically before Game Over.

+ given how Gamzee basically dragged Terezi into his juggalo cult, I think we can–to an extent–read her as an unwilling Maenad, and so Gamzee identifying himself with her symbol here seems relevant.

Back to Orpheus, though. You’re right to point out the similarities between Orphic and Dionysian traditions–both were apparently mystery cults, fitting both the secretive nature of the Mirthful Messiahs and the unknowable nature of Void.

Orpheus in general comes off pretty Voidy–his mythology seems to feature a lot of water imagery, fitting Equius’ sweat motif, for example. But apparently, some held that Orpheus was a mortal version of Dionysus himself:

“Here his death is analogous with that of Pentheus,
who was also torn to pieces by Maenads; and it has been speculated that
the Orphic mystery cult regarded Orpheus as a parallel figure to or
even an incarnation of Dionysus.

Which is certainly interesting because part of Dionysus’ myth is being ingrained in Zeus’ thigh until he grows to reach maturity. This “becoming part of the Patriarch God” narrative evokes, to me, Gamzee and Equius both becoming one with AR/Caliborn, who are both stand ins for Yaldabaoth, the sun-branded Demiurge described in Gnostic mythology.

One of the figures the term ‘Demiurge’ was born to describe was Zeus, and indeed, Caliborn’s arc in particular echoes Zeus at times–Caliborn banishing the beta kids into the house echoes Zeus’ banishing Typheus under Mt. Etna, which was also said to house Hephaestus’ forges.

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And then there’s the most famous myth Orpheus is involved in–his quest to seek his dead wife in the Afterlife.

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When Eurydice dies, Orpheus travels to Hades and charms the gods into letting her travel back to the world of the living with him…

“But thoughtless Orpheus forgot, and when he turned round and looked at his wife, she instantly slipped into the depths again.”

Void is the counterpart to Light, the aspect of the imaginary, the Humanities–the realms of thought. So ‘Thoughtless’ feels particularly Voidy here, especially since it causes a return to depths. Memory and Forgetting pretty clearly tie into Light/Void respectively, too.

I might be reading too much into the wording here, but the basic parallel stands–Equius doesn’t die to find Aradia, but his stint in the underworld coincides with dating a bunch of Aradiabots, and when he returns to the world of the living it’s without her, as…

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A version of Yaldabaoth/Zeus, with a side of Orpheus/Dionysus attached. I’m not totally sure I buy this reading–if we were talking about any Aspect besides Void, which is literally linked to vague and unknowableness, I’d want to feel a lot more certain. Its possible there are other deities that might reflect the Zahhaks better.

But this seems pretty fitting to me, so I thought I’d raise the curiosity.

What do you all think?

This time we dig into Gamzee’s recurring links to the masks of Comedy and Tragedy, historical worship of the Greek god of Theatre, Dionysus, and what all of this tells us about Gamzee’s arc and, potentially, even the Rage aspect.

Today’s question is: Can you think of other trolls with strong ties to figures in Greecoroman/Egyptian/Judeo-Christian mythologies?

You can find links to sources & support the project at:
https://www.patreon.com/optimisticDuelist

Find the music on bandcamp!

Purple Bard: https://homestuck.bandcamp.com/track/…
Apocryphal Antithesis: https://homestuck.bandcamp.com/track/…
Entangled with the Void: https://spellmynamewithabang.bandcamp…

Fanart source: Ikimaru http://ikimaru.tumblr.com

More on Theater @ Crash Course: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeTeK…

ellenuser replied to your post “Doesn’t the story almost capstone with the concept that each and every…”

That quote from John is a lot considering he’s one of the characters who does the “real [character]” thing the most.

Agreed! The one he does it the most to is Davesprite, who’s issues it severely exacerbates until he becomes Davepeta, too.

nuclearmentality replied to your post  “Doesn’t the story almost capstone with the concept that each and every…”

“relevance” (to the plot) and “importance” (to a character’s overall ‘true self’) are two completely separate things, imo at least

agreed here, too.

Would it be possible for you to elaborate on the Jane as the Savior of the Dreaming Dead theory you mentioned? What’s your thinking behind it?

There’s not a ton to it, just that the epilogue is probably going to give Jake time to shine if it covers the Masterpiece, and it would make sense to me if it gave the other most overlooked kid some time in the spotlight, too.

We’re probably going to see how the alpha kids will get out of the Masterpiece stage, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they end up in the Void where Vriska/Aradia/Sollux/Davepeta/Terezi/The Beta Kids are all likely to be, as well as the heroic remnants of the Ghost Army.

So there’s a bunch of doomed ghosts who just proved their heroism and worth around, and Jane has more or less willingly inherited a degree of responsibility for trollkind by taking over the Condesce’s company. And she can resurrect people. She’ll probably wanna help them, if the opportunity comes up!

Mostly I think this is likely not because of any particular plot beats, but because Homestuck’s themes point in that direction to me. At least, if I’m understanding the story correctly, I think it likely doesn’t believe anyone is worthy of absolute oblivion other than Caliborn.

If like, I’m thinking there’s a chance Gamzee gets revived or Arquis gets saved by Davepeta, then I definitely expect the troll ghosts to be saved, you know?

This is all ifs though, and its part of what makes waiting for the epilogue so exciting. It’s gonna tell us so much about Homestuck’s underlying philosophy wrt morality and the meaning of existence in Paradox Space, we’ll understand a lot more about what Homestuck has been Trying To Say this whole time, if that makes sense.

Random thought: what if the verbs for change & know were actually spell (like magic spells or spelling) and read, respectively?

I’ve considered that (though I went for Speech for the know classes; speaking/talking a lot is something all the prophet classes are known for and kind of a relevant idea to being a prophet in general, no?)

but i think those more specific verbs are too constrincting, compared to the versatility of change and know. I still consider them part of each class’ toolbelt though–every class’ verb is associated with some synonyms or close kins, like:

Make: Heal, improve, fix,

Destroy: Break

Steal: Take

Serve: Give, Beat (as in beating), Help,

Command: Master

And all of the verbs are linked to either Exploit or Invite/Allow, depending on Active vs. Passive behavior.