discoursekind:

stormsbourne:

I’ve almost made like 6 different posts about this going in depth about how Brain Ghost Dirk quoting this line is proof of how powerful and badass Jake sees Dirk as, more than anything to do with thinking of Dirk as toxic or controlling, but mostly it’s just come to my awareness of how many people don’t fucking know “My name is [x], you [verb]ed my [person], prepare to die” is a reference (some because they are young and some because well it’s a damn 80s fantasy film) and basically educateyourself.gif

This quote being the one BGD fires off is also deep proof of just how much of him comes from Jake’s psyche, not Dirk himself. Like. You wanna look at this and tell me Dirk wouldn’t be rolling his eyes the entire time. Meanwhile Jake watches this with the biggest stars in his eyes and gasps when Inigo gets back up 

blah blah also the six-fingered man is to inigo’s father as aranea is to jake: both are being used and exploited by the more powerful individuals specifically for the sake of weapons, but that’s a deeper reading than andrew hussie likely intended with his witty quote dispensing at the ideal time

and, in summary,

image

I think that the line playing into movies is very important for the scene and that this is crucial to how Jake views thing, but I think what makes BGDirk so powerful here is that it represents Jake truly understanding Dirk and who he is.  I would say this line is particularly representative of Dirk and how Dirk tries to express sincere emotions.

Consider Umberto Eco’s description of saying “I love you” in a postmodern world:

“The postmodern reply to the modern consists of recognizing that the past, since it cannot really be destroyed, because its destruction leads to silence, must be revisited: but with irony, not innocently. I think of the postmodern attitude as that of a man who loves a very cultivated woman and knows that he cannot say to her ‘I love you madly’, because he knows that she knows (and that she knows he knows) that these words have already been written by Barbara Cartland. Still, there is a solution. He can say ‘As Barbara Cartland would put it, I love you madly’. At this point, having avoided false innocence, having said clearly that it is no longer possible to speak innocently, he will nevertheless have said what he wanted to say to the woman: that he loves her in an age of lost innocence. If the woman goes along with this, she will have received a declaration of love all the same. Neither of the two speakers will feel innocent, both will have accepted the challenge of the past, of the already said, which cannot be eliminated; both will consciously and with pleasure play the game of irony… But both will have succeeded, once again, in speaking of love.”

You can see a clear parallel with Dirk’s description of irony to Jane: 

TT: The upper echelons of irony should always include measures of sincerity. And if the satirical practice is executed faithfully it will achieve something bona fide in its own right regardless.
TT: Through an intense commitment bordering on religious devotion to the absolutely inane, absurd, or plain fucking stupid, a very different kind of sincerity begins to materialize. One of reverence to the ridiculous. You begin to “mean it,” but what exactly it is you mean is never quite what appears on the surface, and is utterly inaccessible to obtuse and literal minds. That you “mean it” then becomes inseparable from the joke, and additional rich strata of humor may be stripped aggressively from this irreconcilable truth.

Dirk is extremely pop culture savvy and likes to quote things (he does it left and right, from SBAHJ references to stupid memes), and this is one more quotation that fits into it. BGDirk, as a splinter of Dirk based on Jake’s understanding, becomes fully actualized here. Rather than reflecting Jake’s self-hatred as he does in the jail cell scenes, BGDirk in this scene is fully realized through Jake’s awakened hope powers and is able to become ACTUALLY like Dirk.  And he represents that through a quotation: a quotation of a silly movie, but also a very sincere one, a quotation that allows him to be ironic while also expressing his extreme love and devotion for Jake.

In my opinion, that’s what makes this such an incredibly powerful moment for their relationship. In this moment, Jake fully understands Dirk, and so he fully understands how Dirk loves him, sincerely loves him, even through his ironies and references. That understanding of his love is what allows BGDirk to be completely real for as long as Jake has faith in him.

My 11th grade english teacher taught us that writers go over their work again and again– they don’t put every bit of symbolism in their first draft, that gets added later. How on earth did Andrew Hussie put so much symbolism in Homestuck when it was updated whenever he finished the next page? He couldn’t have thought all this out ahead of time, could he?

Your English teacher was wrong, for starters. The presumption that all writers develop their work the same way is flat-out incorrect. I know writers who can only write with outlines, writers who don’t use outlines at all, writers who believe they’re writing out events that happened in some other place in the multiverse, and writers who strongly attest to just the opposite. 

Depending on who you ask, writing is intellectual or personal or philosophical or spiritual or any combination of the above, and no two people approach it identically. Writing, like all art, is as personal an alchemy as the construction of your own identity. 

So it’s entirely possible Hussie is a writer who could indeed have thought a lot of this out ahead of time. I don’t know the guy and am not in the habit of speculating as to his nature or allowing ideas about what’s “possible” for a writer to influence how I read the text, because usually what people think is “possible” is just a bunch of self-limiting bullshit.

That said, I don’t really know how Hussie wrote the story, beyond a few methods that are beginning to seem self-evident to me. We’re lucky in that one such method is one he’s discussed himself, presented here through @curlicuecal ‘s excellent roundup of Hussie’s quotes on writing:

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The takeaway here is that Hussie is a very rules-focused author, who values consistency and strict adherence to the parameters he lays out.
This is specifically about character writing, but Homestuck is a rules-focused narrative in all things, so it’s easy to extrapolate elsewhere:

The Alpha Timeline, Classpects, Roleplay, The Active/Passive Spectrum, Denizen symbolism, Dreamselves–all have corresponding sets of rules, whether they be guides for behaviors, logical consequences to actions taken, or the fundamental structures of the setting itself.

It’s also demonstrably true that Hussie is something of a culture remixer, who will freely adapt entire plotlines from other sources for a particular character’s arc if it’s useful to his goal.  

So I’d suggest that this hypothesis is somewhat likely:
At least insofar as the Gnostic symbolism that pervades the entire story goes, you’re mixing up cause and effect. 

Hussie didn’t need a second draft to “add” symbols to his story, because Homestuck is built around the symbols in the first place.
It’s worth noting that Homestuck itself puts a massive emphasis on the power of Symbols through the TRAGICALLY overlooked Drunk Rose District section:

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So, for example, Hussie didn’t need to know every minute twist and turn of Caliborn’s ridiculous story in order to build him up as a compelling villain–he just needed to start Homestuck’s story with the understanding that it was about being “Trapped” in a flawed world created by a “Yaldabaoth” figure:
a flawed, evil Creator God associated with the Sun. 

This means Hussie could use the symbol of the Sun to stand in as a symbol for Yaldabaoth/the central antagonist, which is precisely what we see him do:

And the details of the antagonist’s nature could be developed and presented later, linking the character to the Symbol explicitly in any number of ways:

Like the red sun being presented later in Caliborn’s artwork, “Homosuck”–represented by his red cheek spiral, no less.

Hussie could also hypothetically build from the symbolism already associated with Yaldabaoth to flesh out the character further. All it would take is some cursory research on, say, Wikipedia or other freely accessible texts like Jung’s 7 Sermons. 

The Demiurge is sometimes described as an Angel, and through association with Samael, specifically an Angel of Death. There we get LE embodying Death to Troll-kind, and Caliborn and Calliope’s Cherubic origins. So on and so forth.

This is the logic that guides my approach in researching everything Homestuck presents, not just Caliborn. The Classpects, the Denizens, particular character beats–everything. So far, I think it’s been pretty fruitful, so I might be onto something with all this.

And doing this kind of freeballing, primarily online research for mythbuilding would also make a lot of sense if Hussie were, for example, writing primarily for an online audience known for researching and analyzing pretty much everything the story presents.

It would in fact be quite efficient to include some references to Wikipedia and then litter the story with thematic and symbolic callouts, letting the fandom pick up the threads and apply them to the plot, which itself would benefit from being able to focus on itself without having to take the time to explain and break down every symbol and reference.

Again it’s worth saying that this is just me guessing based off what I’ve seen in Homestuck itself. I have no idea if Hussie actually approached the story at all like this. I could well be wrong.

But whether or not it’s true in Hussie’s specific case, it’s certainly a way one could plausibly construct a story like Homestuck, if one were inclined to write a very complex story with profound symbology and approached writing as a process of setting and then holding to a series of rules.

So whether or not it’s true here, I think it lends a certain logic to how stories like Homestuck could be written, and that makes it a valuable exercise in critical analysis and in considering how I might like to write things someday, myself. 

Writing works like this is certainly not impossible. 
It just takes a little foresight, persistence and commitment to a certain work style, and good foundational design. 

stormsbourne:

I’ve almost made like 6 different posts about this going in depth about how Brain Ghost Dirk quoting this line is proof of how powerful and badass Jake sees Dirk as, more than anything to do with thinking of Dirk as toxic or controlling, but mostly it’s just come to my awareness of how many people don’t fucking know “My name is [x], you [verb]ed my [person], prepare to die” is a reference (some because they are young and some because well it’s a damn 80s fantasy film) and basically educateyourself.gif

This quote being the one BGD fires off is also deep proof of just how much of him comes from Jake’s psyche, not Dirk himself. Like. You wanna look at this and tell me Dirk wouldn’t be rolling his eyes the entire time. Meanwhile Jake watches this with the biggest stars in his eyes and gasps when Inigo gets back up 

blah blah also the six-fingered man is to inigo’s father as aranea is to jake: both are being used and exploited by the more powerful individuals specifically for the sake of weapons, but that’s a deeper reading than andrew hussie likely intended with his witty quote dispensing at the ideal time

and, in summary,

image

hi im very gay and dirkjake remains very good 

Yo, I may have discovered another way Dirk emulates Dave, through music. In the 2 major flashes Dirk was in, Prince: Rise up, Unite, and Synchronize, they play 2 themes that were previously associated with Dave, Time On My Side and Unite Synchronization (due to the bandcamp art that represents those tracks). I’m curious on your thoughts on this.

my main thought is “mother of fuck now ill never be able to unthink that” so good job anon thats certainly part of MY canon now