if you think dirk and jade arent best friends well. heh. youre just wrong
jade dirk and terezi regularly commit crimes together and thats just the truth
“wow dirk how come your mom lets you have TWO girlfriends??” “Actually, they’re dating each other. They just like to solicit me to run around and commit felonies with them”
dirk strider, jade harley, terezi pyrope: enemies of the state
So we all know about how Jake Harley was flying that giant ass ship and landed on the battle field because of the fact that Jade’s stuffed dreamself exists in the laboratory, and that pre-scratch Roxy and John’s dad have a date on said planet in Skia. We ALSO know that Jade’s grandfather died and became a stuffed corpse which was placed in Jade’s house. My concern is, how did he become a stuffed corpse? And how the fuck did he get into SBURB? (Actually NVM it only took two (2/2)) -puzzle anon
Grandpa got into the Sburb session one of two ways:
1) The Derse/Prospit teleporters under the frog temple elevator
2) More likely, since he had his ship, he used the Skaian defense portals–same way Grimbark Jade stole the Earth.
He did this before he died, obviously. So he picked up Jade’s dream corpse, put it in his house, and then died eventually-at which point Jade stuffed him herself, carrying on the family tradition.
Hey, guys! In this video, we dive into Classpects in a little more depth, focusing on the recurring symbol of the Witch’s Familiar. We also take a look at every case of Witch roleplay we’re currently aware of, and note how characters who roleplay as Witches always seem to end up with Familiars themselves.
ok, see… I support a lot your roleplay theory, but this is where I disagree.
Or rather, I think that both your roleplay theory and bladekindeyewear’s inversion theory are both valid interpretations of the same concept of the charactes acting in resistance/defiance of their role and should be applied on a case to case basis and can even sometimes interlope, like in Rose’s case. For example, I think “Aranea is roleplaying as a Thief” is more accurate than “Aranea is overbearing her Sylph role”, but I think Inversion is more accurate in this case. Yeah, Jade is acting more passively due to Skaia’s influence, but why is she so submited to said influence? Vriska, who is putting her to sleep every chance she gets for 13 years of her life to further her own agenda, so Jade’s attitude on life up until she can’t dream with Skaia is to just do what the clouds say, and once she’s forcefully taken out of that position she starts acting more actively, as represented by her actually confronting karkat’s bullshit instead of just blocking him The difference between Jade and Kanaya is that the latter has a normal sleeping schedule and a passive alignment in her class, so she can enact her role with more balance.
Also, I don’t get why you say there’s no imagery associated with Jade as a seer when everyone up to act 4 is calling her a Psychic, has 2 pages were she shows off both her 8-ball and cue ball and later makes a pair of goggles that let her see everything. Not to mention the entire segment of her letter to PM and the cable she left for The Mayor.
I agree completely with shizukateal–I think the imagery is too prevalent and too frequent to be brushed off as “oh it’s Prospit’s influence”, when the imagery is very specifically linked to Seers. Crystal balls? Spectagoggles? Her early fixation on seeing events disconnected in time, and trying in vain to remind herself of when all these things are supposed to happen, while she frantically attempts to give instructions to others to allow them to bring about the events she has witnessed? It’s textbook Seer of Time behavior, but it’s not healthy for Jade, she isn’t really happy or satisfied behaving that way, because her true nature is far more active and hands-on.
When Rose is (whether through inversion or roleplay) behaving like a Witch of Void, she is wielding wands (a Witch symbol if I ever saw one), trying to solve everything herself (an Active sign), and highly focused on rebellion (also a Witch trait) against her Light aspect and the concept of anything being meaningful (the tearing apart of more Light, to get Void, its opposite).
When Jade is (through inversion, because roleplay frankly doesn’t justify it) behaving like a Seer of Time, she is wielding assorted crystal balls (a Seer symbol), trying to pass every bit of information she has glimpsed in the clouds of Skaia (moments scattered throughout Time) on to the people who can actively Do Something about them while remaining quite inert herself. She’s even likely doing it all because her extremely isolated spatial position has left her feeling powerless and frustrated in her natural aspect and class. She can’t change things happening across Space now, herself, so she naturally flips to telling other people what to expect across Time.
I think it’s also causing additional confusion when people treat the Derse vs Prospit categorization as meaning the same sort of active/passive as the Active classes vs Passive classes.
If we want to take WP’s official word on the subject, Prospit sway means: inherently optimistic, adaptable, intuitive, instinctive, emotional, unstable, changeable, flexible, outward-looking, and focused on the present day to day.
Derse sway means: inherently skeptical, pessimistic, dissatisfied, rebellious, self-aware, controlling, inflexible, cerebral, introverted, and fixated on analyzing the past and looking forward into the future.
‘Passive’ classes, however, are (according to Calliope) those which “allow their aspect to benefit others”, and a player with a Passive class is “one who allows (aspect) to be (verbed), or invites (noun) throUgh (aspect), as if by the will of the aspect”.
‘Active’ classes, by the same token, are those which “exploit their aspect to benefit themselves”. And an Active player is “one who (verbs) (aspect), or caUses (noun) throUgh (aspect)”.
These are not describing the same feature at all. If they were, classes would naturally be linked to either Derse or Prospit. They’re not. In fact, as near as I can tell from searching mspa, Derse is never called ‘active’ in canon OR on the extended zodiac, and Prospit is never called ‘passive’. How did that get started, anyway?
I’m drawing partly on the description of Derse/Prospit from the Zodiac, but just as much, if not more, from a particular post Hussie made on Tumblr (archived here). where he describes the moons this way:
I don’t really think Jade is acting like a Seer at all. At least, I haven’t seen that referenced in the story so far. Roleplay is a way that players deviate from their native active/passive states, but it doesn’t seem to be the only way. Dreaming moons influence players to be more Active (in Derse’s case) or more Passive (in Prospit’s) on their own.
Jade *is* acting more Passive during that section of the story, but that’s explicitly due to her waking up early on Prospit, and Prospit’s Passive influence. I don’t really know that we need more of an explanation for her behavior there.
Similarly, I don’t really think Jade’s ability to see the future is dropped as an element of her character–it just stops being relevant as the timeline catches up to Jade and other characters start waking up.
Everything Jade does is, by Kanaya’s own admission, something Kanaya also does. So unless Seer roleplay is a thing all Space players default to early on (which I suppose is fairly possible–Skaia certainly qualifies as a divine influence), I don’t think that’s what’s up.
It’s important to note *why* I think Rose is roleplaying a Witch. It’s a byproduct of her interest in wizardry and an inability to really understand Mom’s true nature as a Rogue. She isn’t assigned the Witch roleplay from abstract, Skaian forces–she’s driven into it by her own confused admiration of her mom and desperate desire for power.
If Jade is roleplaying a Seer, I’d expect some similar impetus or drive or associated imagery from her. Along those lines, I think there’s *sort of* an argument Jade might be roleplaying a Page, though I kind of feel like Grandpa and Nanna’s relative absences mean there’s not a ton of ancestral influence from them. It’s hard to say.
But if we’re saying active/passive literally translates to offensive/defensive for the sake of this topic, then Derse would be very active and Prospit would be very passive. Derse’s job is to attack. Prospit’s is to defend. This seems to carry over to the roles of the dreamers too. Dave and Rose turned out to be very active players. Dave time traveling all over the place, making a fortune on stocks and such. […]
Being from Derse means you are from a culture of offense and aggression.
Being from Prospit means the opposite. You could argue that these are
qualities that either rub off on the dreamers, or they are designated as
those dreamers in the first place because of those qualities. You could
take the view that these are innate tendencies to overcome, as seemed
to be the case for Jade and Rose.
Or maybe sometimes they are tendencies
that are resisted, and need to be understood and embraced. As a Prospit
dreamer, did Karkat struggle because he was actually passive in nature,
but had a very active self image as a leader and conqueror? Was Vriska
an even more extreme case of misplaced active behavior from a Prospit
dreamer? These are yet more things to consider when looking at
everything contributing to the hero story of an individual in this game.
As for the item imagery you note–I mean, I tend not to assume roleplay unless there’s some kind of hard evidence to imply it in the text, through description in the narrative prompt or pesterlog dialogue.
The examples you note seem pretty general to me, to that effect. Jade has crystal 8-balls and a Scratch cueball, but then so does Vriska. Vriska even also had special goggles that let her peer into the cueball, where Jade couldn’t–does that mean she was also roleplaying a prophet?
I feel that the focus with roleplay is less on individual actions and more on the impact of role models and interests on the characters’ ways of interacting with the world. Hence why I’m so careful about it.
Trust me, I’d be delighted if I was convinced Jade was roleplaying a Seer, not the least because it avoids me having to consider any implications that Jade roleplaying a Page makes her more Passive, which I *am* considering but am not in love with.
But if I’m going to be convinced, it’s going to have to be with more evidence. Inversion theory is not canon, and I am left unsatisfied by arguments that posit a character has changed in so fundamental away simply on its merits. If Jade *is* roleplaying a Seer, then I’m sure it’s somewhere in the text and I’ve missed it. But where would she be drawing that influence from?
I don’t really think Jade is acting like a Seer at all. At least, I haven’t seen that referenced in the story so far. Roleplay is a way that players deviate from their native active/passive states, but it doesn’t seem to be the only way. Dreaming moons influence players to be more Active (in Derse’s case) or more Passive (in Prospit’s) on their own.
Jade *is* acting more Passive during that section of the story, but that’s explicitly due to her waking up early on Prospit, and Prospit’s Passive influence. I don’t really know that we need more of an explanation for her behavior there.
Similarly, I don’t really think Jade’s ability to see the future is dropped as an element of her character–it just stops being relevant as the timeline catches up to Jade and other characters start waking up.
Everything Jade does is, by Kanaya’s own admission, something Kanaya also does. So unless Seer roleplay is a thing all Space players default to early on (which I suppose is fairly possible–Skaia certainly qualifies as a divine influence), I don’t think that’s what’s up.
It’s important to note *why* I think Rose is roleplaying a Witch. It’s a byproduct of her interest in wizardry and an inability to really understand Mom’s true nature as a Rogue. She isn’t assigned the Witch roleplay from abstract, Skaian forces–she’s driven into it by her own confused admiration of her mom and desperate desire for power.
If Jade is roleplaying a Seer, I’d expect some similar impetus or drive or associated imagery from her. Along those lines, I think there’s *sort of* an argument Jade might be roleplaying a Page, though I kind of feel like Grandpa and Nanna’s relative absences mean there’s not a ton of ancestral influence from them. It’s hard to say.
ok, see… I support a lot your roleplay theory, but this is where I disagree.
Or rather, I think that both your roleplay theory and bladekindeyewear’s inversion theory are both valid interpretations of the same concept of the charactes acting in resistance/defiance of their role and should be applied on a case to case basis and can even sometimes interlope, like in Rose’s case. For example, I think “Aranea is roleplaying as a Thief” is more accurate than “Aranea is overbearing her Sylph role”, but I think Inversion is more accurate in this case. Yeah, Jade is acting more passively due to Skaia’s influence, but why is she so submited to said influence? Vriska, who is putting her to sleep every chance she gets for 13 years of her life to further her own agenda, so Jade’s attitude on life up until she can’t dream with Skaia is to just do what the clouds say, and once she’s forcefully taken out of that position she starts acting more actively, as represented by her actually confronting karkat’s bullshit instead of just blocking him The difference between Jade and Kanaya is that the latter has a normal sleeping schedule and a passive alignment in her class, so she can enact her role with more balance.
Also, I don’t get why you say there’s no imagery associated with Jade as a seer when everyone up to act 4 is calling her a Psychic, has 2 pages were she shows off both her 8-ball and cue ball and later makes a pair of goggles that let her see everything. Not to mention the entire segment of her letter to PM and the cable she left for The Mayor.
My basic standpoint is that WP has said inversion theory isn’t canon, so I don’t have much reason to regard it as an influence in the story. I think Jade is submitted to Prospit’s influence because she dreams a lot on Prospit.
Prospit and Derse are two distinct cultures. They have their own sorts of identities that can influence dreamers on their own. I don’t think you need extra justification to explain why someone is influenced by a place that they grow up in–that happens as a matter of course.
And that’s what Prospit and Derse are to their respective dreamers–provided they’ve woken up. Jade wakes up early, as does Kanaya, and as a consequence both grow up in two different worlds/places/environments simultaneously.
Their exposure to Prospit’s culture also encourages both to act Passively, but Kanaya suffers less for this as she’s already a Passive class. Tavros is another example–he spends the latter part of his game being incredibly passive, and also, it so happens, dreaming on Prospit.
We see from Jadesprite emerging from the Dream Bubbles with her sense of self-indulgent, helpless fatalism that Jade is extremely susceptible to this kind of environmental conditioning, which makes sense, because environments and places are part of what Space describes.
So I view her passivity as being more telling of her nature as a Space player than of inversion, on her part. As for the psychic stuff, I mean. I guess I’m just not all that inclined to regard “psychic” as synonymous with “prophet”.
A Prophet is a pretty specific archetypal image, and all of the classes access psychic power through the Aspects. Heck, the Zodiac’s -Bound designations link Aspect powers to Earthbound, implying Aspects in and of themselves are psychic in nature.
So sure Jade is psychic, but so is literally everyone in the cast, by Homestuck/Hiveswap’s own coding. I don’t think it’s impossible to convince me Jade is roleplaying a prophet here necessarily–I honestly am not confident I have a reading of her early character I’m 100% satisfied with, I feel like I’m missing stuff, and it could well be that.
But again, this implies literally all Space players–or at least all players who wake up early on their moons–will end up roleplaying Prophets. That’s possible, but it’s a legitimate question that I feel warrants searching for an answer to. I am not convinced inversion is that answer. That’s about where I am.
I don’t really think Jade is acting like a Seer at all. At least, I haven’t seen that referenced in the story so far. Roleplay is a way that players deviate from their native active/passive states, but it doesn’t seem to be the only way. Dreaming moons influence players to be more Active (in Derse’s case) or more Passive (in Prospit’s) on their own.
Jade *is* acting more Passive during that section of the story, but that’s explicitly due to her waking up early on Prospit, and Prospit’s Passive influence. I don’t really know that we need more of an explanation for her behavior there.
Similarly, I don’t really think Jade’s ability to see the future is dropped as an element of her character–it just stops being relevant as the timeline catches up to Jade and other characters start waking up.
Everything Jade does is, by Kanaya’s own admission, something Kanaya also does. So unless Seer roleplay is a thing all Space players default to early on (which I suppose is fairly possible–Skaia certainly qualifies as a divine influence), I don’t think that’s what’s up.
It’s important to note *why* I think Rose is roleplaying a Witch. It’s a byproduct of her interest in wizardry and an inability to really understand Mom’s true nature as a Rogue. She isn’t assigned the Witch roleplay from abstract, Skaian forces–she’s driven into it by her own confused admiration of her mom and desperate desire for power.
If Jade is roleplaying a Seer, I’d expect some similar impetus or drive or associated imagery from her. Along those lines, I think there’s *sort of* an argument Jade might be roleplaying a Page, though I kind of feel like Grandpa and Nanna’s relative absences mean there’s not a ton of ancestral influence from them. It’s hard to say.
Flying through Storytelling 