Hey, I know the popular dichotomy of Classpects is Witch-Heir and Maid-Sylph, but wouldn’t it make more logical sense for Witch-Sylph and Maid-Heir to be the pairs?

magpiebridge:

revolutionaryduelist:

Not in my view, but my view of the Classpects doesn’t generally have much to do with the popular view of them–I argue Pages are Active, after all.
I pair the classes the way I do because they’re consistently linked to the same verb in the comic–Make/Create for Maid/Sylph, Change for Witch/Heir.

But on top of that, it’s my view that the classes are also tied by common Archetypes or symbolic motifs. Sylphs and Maids share the Fairy motif, while Witches and Heirs share the motif of the Magician.

John is coded as a “Secret Wizard” from pretty early into his session, and the references never really stop. Jane’s got a couple of references to being a Gnome and producing sparkle dust, so on.

At this point, contesting viewpoints would have to A) Present a common verb that is linked to both classes in the text of the comic, and B) Present a uniting symbol tying the two classes together thematically (or debunk the concept of Archetypes altogether) for me to be seriously swayed.

Which isn’t impossible–Homestuck contains so much content I will never be surprised to be told I’ve missed something. But it does set the bar pretty high.

not the original asker, but I’ve got some of both A and B to share, I suppose.

first and foremost, I would say ‘inherit’ is heavily tied to both Maids and Heirs, as an action verb. Jane uses it the most of anyone to describe her own future. for Maids, they begin in a position of hardship and a lack of their aspect (which is tied to a social role/expectations they have ‘inherited’), while for Heirs, they begin in a position of relative ease and abundance of their aspect (also tied to a role they have ‘inherited’). Maids seek to overcome the difficult expectations and hardships they have inherited by breaking away from the will of others and taking agency for themselves. Heirs, ideally, should overcome their own lack of awareness about their inherited position and take agency on behalf of others. I know you don’t subscribe to inversion theory, but I think this also ties into the Prince (as inversion of Heir) and Bard (as inversion of Maid) classes. the Princes we see both ‘inherit’ a lot of cool and dangerous shit from their progenitors that they use in sometimes questionable ways to enforce their will on reality, but their reality is a relatively difficult/uncomfortable position for them. the Bard that we actually get glimpses of ‘inherits’ a privileged social position and a lot of dangerous expectations but a dearth of actual benefit or resources, and would have to overcome that to stop being a pawn of those expectations and of the people who hold power over him.

we also see the term ‘create’ used more for John, an Heir, than anyone else, even the Maids. the concept of ‘supply’ is connected as well–Heirs are supplied with their aspect, while Maids tend to supply themselves. as said by Rose: “I presume an Heir would be supplied with what’s needed for his maturation, assuming he’s looking for it.“

in terms of Witches and Sylphs, I think the concept of order is a good fit for them. for an action verb, maybe ‘change’? this ties into both the chaotic tendency of Witches to break down order and cause changes in a “destructive” or unexpected way, and the opposing tendency of Sylphs to repair order and cause changes in a “healing” way. we already have canon support for Sylphs and Witches being linked–Kanaya spells it out explicitly. A Sylph is "sort of like a Witch, but more magical”. another word that’s arguable is ‘manipulate’, though I’m somewhat hesitant simply because it’s used so frequently. A lot of people want to peg Sylphs as the counterpart of Maids, but Sylphs do not create, they do not supply–they fix and repair and heal what is already present, which is not the same thing at all.

furthermore, we know from word of Hussie that the most active class is ‘female’,
while the two most passive classes are ‘male’ (discounting Muse and
Lord), which means either Maid and Heir are at the top, or Witch and Heir are. but Witch was explicitly said by Hussie to be “one of the most active”, but not THE most active, which would be a simpler distinction to make, if it were the case. third-most active out of twelve is still heavily active-leaning.

in addition, I think it enables the simplification of the classes into a neat and ordered arrangement from most to least active/passive and combines all 12 in 3 groups of 4 with similar concepts.

first, the most and second-most active and passive (respectively).
all four of these are linked to courts, and both rulers and servants within them.

Maid —— Heir
Prince —- Bard

next, the middle ground grouping.
all four of these are linked to the concept of magic, and both direct and indirect usage of it:

Witch —– Sylph
Mage —– Seer

finally, the least two active/passive classes.
all four of these are sort of the ‘ordinary person’ roles, but roles
found outside the protected bubble of the castle and deep into the grit
of real life:

Thief —— Rogue
Knight —- Page

admittedly a few of my arguments for Knight being the active counterpart of the passive Page nod at the example of inversion in action that we see when Vriska practically cosplays a Page of Void, and the flighty, apathetic, unsatisfied Karkat we see presenting as a Rogue of Breath, but there’s also the matter of the word ‘exploit’ being explicitly linked to active classes by Calliope (”active classes exploit their aspect to benefit themselves“) and exploit being linked in-text to Dave the Knight (repeatedly), Doc Scratch (who has no ‘official’ class or aspect), and HIC the Thief (again repeatedly). the passive counterpart, ‘allow’ (passive classes “allow their aspect to benefit others”, also by Calliope) is linked to Seer Terezi, Muse Calliope herself, the Black Queen, Aradia (a Maid, but when she is both dead and acting very much in an inverse or ‘ghosting’ if you prefer, Bard-like way), and Thief Vriska surprisingly (but when Doc Scratch is narrating Seer Terezi’s perception of her).

I accept that the official word says inversion isn’t a thing, but I also counter that if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck and calling it a duck enables people to make informed guesses about how it’s going to behave next, it’s simpler to call it a duck than to create an entire layer of rationalization about how it’s actually a rabbit playing dress-up in flippers.

I also suspect that due to how close they are to the center-point, all of that last group of four classes tend to be somewhat flexible and/or confused about how active or passive they are the most satisfied and successful being. with both Knights Karkat and Dave and Thieves Vriska and Meenah, they start their stories convinced that they are acting in everyone else’s best interests, always, but they’re both actually not very good at it, at all. they all seem much happier and healthier if and when they are given the right environment to focus on actually understanding themselves, their own needs, and their relationship to their aspects–in ways that don’t require destroying the agency of everyone around them. some are more successful at this than others. conversely, both Pages Tavros and Jake and Rogues Roxy and Rufioh spend a lot of time pretending very hard to be self-focused, confident, in-control, and aggressive in ways that maybe are just as much a false front, and when that pressure frees up, they’re far more able to use their innate and instinctive wellspring of their aspect or ability to redirect it to benefit everyone around them, freely (in Rufioh’s case, as his Alternian self who reached that point, rather than his stagnating dream-bubble self).

I’ve explained how I see the Exploit/Allow distinction previously, and I don’t think it’s impossible for a traditionally Passive class to do a lot of exploiting, or vice versa.

You mention a lot of inversion examples, too. I can understand your mindset, but…all I can really say is they don’t look like ducks to me. Any example of inversion theory I’ve ever seen has been better explained by roleplay (Aradia’s actually referred to as a witch *in the text*, and reads far more like one than like a Bard imo.), or as nothing at all (I’ve yet to read an interpretation of (Vriska) as a Page that isn’t a million times weaker than reading her as a Thief.)

I also disagree with the reading of Knights presented. I don’t think Dave and Karkat ever really stop serving/focusing on others. Pre-Retcon, Dave’s neurotic and stressed about Dirk for the entire meteor ride, ditto Karkat about Terezi.

Post-Retcon, they’re as focused on each other as they are on themselves, to the point that Karkat’s literal last words, delivered at what Karkat views as the climax of his personal story, are about how Dave is what he’s thinking about.

Seems to me their improvement has a lot more to do with being honest about their desires for validation and closeness from others–and having healthy outlets for those desires in each other– than about disattaching from others entirely.
Their growths mirror Rose a lot more than Vriska–starting off with self-images that are much more Active than their true natures, and chilling out a lot more as they get older.

Now, as for the verb/Class stuff. I have three big issues here:

1) You mention Jane is associated with the verb “inherit”, which I don’t dispute. But my view is that most of Jane’s arc is about her pretty intense roleplaying as an Heir, through her status as Crockercorp’s Heiress. So I don’t see much reason to connect the “inherit” verb to Maids at all.

2) It doesn’t make a ton of sense to me to connect Witches and Sylphs solely in terms of a shared focus on Magic, because Heirs and Maids are also explicitly connected to magic.

Again, John is referred to as a wizard for pretty much his entire narrative. The cult devoted to him is that of the Secret Wizard, even.

There’s other stuff I could say, but I feel like it’d just be repackaging my writing on Fairies, and if you don’t feel compelled by that then you don’t feel compelled by it.

My only particular point there is that I deeply disagree that Sylphs don’t Make/Create. Kanaya making Eridan his wand or making/increasing Space between all parties when fighting Eridan, Vriska trying to Make Tavros stronger or Create Bec Noir, Aranea literally Making Jake brighter. Sylphs do plenty of creating, in my view.

I think we, as the Homestuck Fandom, need to stop neglecting this gif and start talking about it

draco-rex:

revolutionaryduelist:

candyredterezii:

nvmjustmarina:

candyredterezii:

An important thing to know about this gif is that Dirk doesn’t know who the fuck that is. The only Dirk that had met Neenah was Dream Ghost Dirk, and Alpha Dirk does not have the memories of that Dirk

Dirk just… Did this. He’s that cool

You have to realize that the Condesce exists in his world so he just randomly high fived someone who looks like the tyrannical ruler he wants to take down as a teenager

Which just makes this extra wild

I think just as important is why he did this, bcuz the context to this scene makes it one of the most understatedly beautiful parts of the comic.

Dirk could not have planned the events of Unite: Synchronize. The AR did.
That said, Dirk IS in love with Jake, and when Jake kisses him, the response of Dirk’s soul is such that his lamp on Jane’s planet overflows with Light until it shatters to pieces. And that kiss is what this high-five is directly preceding.

Light is the Aspect that denotes good fortune, importance, and relevance. It’s also implicated in Ascencion/the climb to Enlightenment. So relationships between characters that are particularly Important to both parties tend to be denoted by strong Light symbolism in Homestuck.

We see the lamps light up like this again, sort of, in that the lamps eventually explode and take out the building holding them…but that happens when the kids God Tier. So Dirk’s feelings are being portrayed as roughly equivalent to that.

The High-Five itself drives this link in further. The High-Five as a gesture comes from a closely intertwined overlap between mainstream American culture and LGBT history, as it was started by Glenn Burke, and I quote “the first and only MLB player to come out as gay to teammates and team owners during his professional career and the first to publicly acknowledge it”–Wikipedia.

And as for the High Five itself:

After retiring from baseball, Burke used the high five with other homosexual residents of the Castro district of San Francisco, where it became a symbol of gay pride and identification.^[9]

So yeah, high fives are literally gay dude culture. Considering the conversation that serves as the lynchpin of Dirk and Jake’s relationship is all about Dirk telling Jake about the fall of American civilization and that Dirk’s biggest role-model is Texan, I think it’s fair to say this is probably intentional.

Puts a neat spin on Dirk’s other gay high-five jokes about Jake, too.
And we don’t even really need to bring all this High-Five history in to read Dirk’s feelings for Jake into this sequence.

Dirk spends a shitload of this flash Breaking glass windows. If we can understand Dirk’s suicide as Dirk Destroying his “Self”, it pretty clearly parses through his Prince of Heart title as Destroying Heart.

The window breaking, then, would be Dirk destroying through Heart–using both his feelings for Jake and his cool-guy Persona to smash through the obstacles in his way and save himself and his friends from certain death.

And the final shot of window breaking, the one immediately following his high-five with Meenah?

Positions Jake’s green directly at Dirk’s back, as though pushing him onwards. Jake is, in a sense, the wings on Dirk’s back. In essence, Unite Synchronize is half desperate, heroic effort on the part of a gay teen to save himself and his loved ones.

That kind of attention to detail and symbolic impact is why I keep coming back to Homestuck. I want more stories about gay teens who love their friends to be celebrated as heroes, in all their painful messiness. And that’s why I deeply hope characters like Dirk and his ridiculous rocketboard high-fives stay with us for years to come.

Windows are made of glass, which is reflective, so Dirk is literally smashing through himself, and shattering that himself into a bunch of smaller reflective surfaces. Which connects rather well to his whole “splinters” thing. Just some more Prince of Heart imagery.

ffffffffffffffffffffff it never stops from keep going deeper

I think we, as the Homestuck Fandom, need to stop neglecting this gif and start talking about it

candyredterezii:

nvmjustmarina:

candyredterezii:

An important thing to know about this gif is that Dirk doesn’t know who the fuck that is. The only Dirk that had met Neenah was Dream Ghost Dirk, and Alpha Dirk does not have the memories of that Dirk

Dirk just… Did this. He’s that cool

You have to realize that the Condesce exists in his world so he just randomly high fived someone who looks like the tyrannical ruler he wants to take down as a teenager

Which just makes this extra wild

I think just as important is why he did this, bcuz the context to this scene makes it one of the most understatedly beautiful parts of the comic.

Dirk could not have planned the events of Unite: Synchronize. The AR did.
That said, Dirk IS in love with Jake, and when Jake kisses him, the response of Dirk’s soul is such that his lamp on Jane’s planet overflows with Light until it shatters to pieces. And that kiss is what this high-five is directly preceding.

Light is the Aspect that denotes good fortune, importance, and relevance. It’s also implicated in Ascencion/the climb to Enlightenment. So relationships between characters that are particularly Important to both parties tend to be denoted by strong Light symbolism in Homestuck.

We see the lamps light up like this again, sort of, in that the lamps eventually explode and take out the building holding them…but that happens when the kids God Tier. So Dirk’s feelings are being portrayed as roughly equivalent to that.

The High-Five itself drives this link in further. The High-Five as a gesture comes from a closely intertwined overlap between mainstream American culture and LGBT history, as it was started by Glenn Burke, and I quote “the first and only MLB player to come out as gay to teammates and team owners during his professional career and the first to publicly acknowledge it”–Wikipedia.

And as for the High Five itself:

After retiring from baseball, Burke used the high five with other homosexual residents of the Castro district of San Francisco, where it became a symbol of gay pride and identification.^[9]

So yeah, high fives are literally gay dude culture. Considering the conversation that serves as the lynchpin of Dirk and Jake’s relationship is all about Dirk telling Jake about the fall of American civilization and that Dirk’s biggest role-model is Texan, I think it’s fair to say this is probably intentional.

Puts a neat spin on Dirk’s other gay high-five jokes about Jake, too.
And we don’t even really need to bring all this High-Five history in to read Dirk’s feelings for Jake into this sequence.

Dirk spends a shitload of this flash Breaking glass windows. If we can understand Dirk’s suicide as Dirk Destroying his “Self”, it pretty clearly parses through his Prince of Heart title as Destroying Heart.

The window breaking, then, would be Dirk destroying through Heart–using both his feelings for Jake and his cool-guy Persona to smash through the obstacles in his way and save himself and his friends from certain death.

And the final shot of window breaking, the one immediately following his high-five with Meenah?

Positions Jake’s green directly at Dirk’s back, as though pushing him onwards. Jake is, in a sense, the wings on Dirk’s back. In essence, Unite Synchronize is half desperate, heroic effort on the part of a gay teen to save himself and his loved ones.

That kind of attention to detail and symbolic impact is why I keep coming back to Homestuck. I want more stories about gay teens who love their friends to be celebrated as heroes, in all their painful messiness. And that’s why I deeply hope characters like Dirk and his ridiculous rocketboard high-fives stay with us for years to come.

shelbycragg:

This mix is eight years in the making.

Back in 2010, I was a young college student. I was massively depressed and confused about my identity. My mental illness had isolated from me from my friends and family, and my life felt hopeless. So, as many young people do, I channeled all of my heart and soul into creating fanart, fanmixes, cosplay, fan fiction, and meta posts about my favorite webcomic: /Homestuck/, by Andrew Hussie. I was SO prolific in the fandom that in 2012, Andrew asked me to do the canon art for a fangirl parody character, “Calliope”. Of course, I accepted right away! It was so much fun getting to put a lot of myself into this character through her art.

Calliope is an alien character that shares a body with her “brother”, Caliborn. Together they live in complete isolation, chained up and only allowed to talk to people on their computers. Caliborn is a raging misogynist who is determined to break down Calliope’s will to live and ultimately kill her. Calliope’s goal was to reform her brother, to make him more like her, so that their personalities could integrate into one powerful being, with her as the dominate force.

Throughout 2012 and 2013, my popularity and following in the fandom grew due to my insanely prolific nature. (Seriously, my mental health was so bad that Homestuck was the ONLY thing I let myself think about. I lived my entire life in a dissociative haze.) I became, as they are called, a “big name fan”, and as such, I started to receive a hell of a lot of harassment. A lot of it was misogynist in nature, and a lot of it came from my own blunders and mistakes as I tried to figure out my identity and sexuality while in the public eye. (I made a lot of mistakes in my early 20s, as pretty much everyone does!)

Online fame has a way of making you lose yourself in the hatred. I related more and more to Calliope, and grew increasingly attached to her character and fictional plight as a coping mechanism to deal with all the abuse and isolation. The more I isolated myself, the less people online treated me like a real person. It was a vicious cycle!

At some point though, the constant harassment became too much to bear. I stopped allowing myself to enjoy my hobbies, and I focused hard on building my life again. I started writing original fiction! I killed the part of myself that enjoyed fanwork, because at a certain point, she was bringing me nothing but misery. I became afraid and ashamed of how deep I was into my coping mechanisms, and several toxic people around me just reinforced this view over and over again. I retreated into obscurity, leaving my fandom days behind me and trying desperately not to think about the kind of person I was in those days.

I never left Homestuck behind, though! I continued to do freelance work for the comic, and became increasingly involved in What Pumpkin Games, where I now work full time on the Hiveswap series. But I told myself over and over again that this was just a job, that I had left behind my embarrassing fandom days that in my mind, had brought me nothing but misery.

But… here’s the thing: I was lying to myself.

Through the Homestuck fandom, I met my amazing wife! I had so many opportunities to share myself with an audience, I found inspiration and meaning in my life, and it launched me into a promising artistic career! A LOT of good things have blossomed from that strange coping mechanism. to think that it brought me nothing but pain was nothing but my distorted, PTSD-addled brain telling me that I was garbage.

So, why did I let myself stop enjoying something I loved SO MUCH? I don’t have any one good answer, but I do know one thing now: I’m done living like that! I am a queer person, I’m an abuse survivor, and I am a writer and an artist and a cosplayer and god dammit, I fucking love Calliope and Caliborn. So, this mix is for them, but it’s also for everyone out there in this awful culture that makes women feel like shit for daring to speak, for daring to like things and have opinions, and for being weird fangirls.

I have news for everyone, though. Weird fangirls are amazing, and we are going to win!

Please, enjoy the mix! ^u^

YOUTUBE PLAYLIST
APPLE MUSIC PLAYLIST

Liner notes behind the cut!

Keep reading

whatpumpkin:

calibratorg:

(Sorry for the constant update. I do not usually paint digital and I started to find errors everywhere)

Polypa is one of my favorite designs. Most of the new designs 5M3LL like Beforus but Polypa says Alternia everywhere! And if the trolls are being revealed in pairs they are probably related in some way.

So here it is! Polypa vs Tegiri!!!

This is my Comic for #HiveswapComicContest!

Congratulations to our HIVESWAP COMICS CONTEST Week 1 first place winner!

I remember you said in one post that grimdark Rose (and even Rose just before she turns grimdark) is roleplaying fairly successfully as a witch, but do you have any thoughts on Jade acting like a seer at the very beginning of the story? Like we’re introduced to Jade as someone who has an ability to see into the future, but this is completely dropped as an attribute of her character later on, so I was wondering what you thought of how that coincides with her character development or anything

magpiebridge:

shizukateal:

ok, see… I support a lot your roleplay theory, but this is where I disagree.

Or rather, I think that both your roleplay theory and bladekindeyewear’s inversion theory are both valid interpretations of the same concept of the charactes acting in resistance/defiance of their role and should be applied on a case to case basis and can even sometimes interlope, like in Rose’s case. For example, I think “Aranea is roleplaying as a Thief” is more accurate than “Aranea is overbearing her Sylph role”, but I think Inversion is more accurate in this case. Yeah, Jade is acting more passively due to Skaia’s influence, but why is she so submited to said influence? Vriska, who is putting her to sleep every chance she gets for 13 years of her life to further her own agenda, so Jade’s attitude on life up until she can’t dream with Skaia is to just do what the clouds say, and once she’s forcefully taken out of that position she starts acting more actively, as represented by her actually confronting karkat’s bullshit instead of just blocking him The difference between Jade and Kanaya is that the latter has a normal sleeping schedule and a passive alignment in her class, so she can enact her role with more balance.

Also, I don’t get why you say there’s no imagery associated with Jade as a seer when everyone up to act 4 is calling her a Psychic, has 2 pages were she shows off both her 8-ball and cue ball and later makes a pair of goggles that let her see everything. Not to mention the entire segment of her letter to PM and the cable she left for The Mayor.

I agree completely with shizukateal–I think the imagery is too prevalent and too frequent to be brushed off as “oh it’s Prospit’s influence”, when the imagery is very specifically linked to Seers. Crystal balls? Spectagoggles? Her early fixation on seeing events disconnected in time, and trying in vain to remind herself of when all these things are supposed to happen, while she frantically attempts to give instructions to others to allow them to bring about the events she has witnessed? It’s textbook Seer of Time behavior, but it’s not healthy for Jade, she isn’t really happy or satisfied behaving that way, because her true nature is far more active and hands-on.

When Rose is (whether through inversion or roleplay) behaving like a Witch of Void, she is wielding wands (a Witch symbol if I ever saw one), trying to solve everything herself (an Active sign), and highly focused on rebellion (also a Witch trait) against her Light aspect and the concept of anything being meaningful (the tearing apart of more Light, to get Void, its opposite).

When Jade is (through inversion, because roleplay frankly doesn’t justify it) behaving like a Seer of Time, she is wielding assorted crystal balls (a Seer symbol), trying to pass every bit of information she has glimpsed in the clouds of Skaia (moments scattered throughout Time) on to the people who can actively Do Something about them while remaining quite inert herself. She’s even likely doing it all because her extremely isolated spatial position has left her feeling powerless and frustrated in her natural aspect and class. She can’t change things happening across Space now, herself, so she naturally flips to telling other people what to expect across Time.

I think it’s also causing additional confusion when people treat the Derse vs Prospit categorization as meaning the same sort of active/passive as the Active classes vs Passive classes.

If we want to take WP’s official word on the subject, Prospit sway means: inherently optimistic, adaptable, intuitive, instinctive, emotional, unstable, changeable, flexible, outward-looking, and focused on the present day to day.

Derse sway means: inherently skeptical, pessimistic, dissatisfied, rebellious, self-aware, controlling, inflexible, cerebral, introverted, and fixated on analyzing the past and looking forward into the future.

‘Passive’ classes, however, are (according to Calliope) those which “allow their aspect to benefit others”, and a player with a Passive class is “one who allows (aspect) to be (verbed), or invites (noun) throUgh (aspect), as if by the will of the aspect”.

‘Active’ classes, by the same token, are those which “exploit their aspect to benefit themselves”. And an Active player is “one who (verbs) (aspect), or caUses (noun) throUgh (aspect)”.

These are not describing the same feature at all. If they were, classes would naturally be linked to either Derse or Prospit. They’re not. In fact, as near as I can tell from searching mspa, Derse is never called ‘active’ in canon OR on the extended zodiac, and Prospit is never called ‘passive’. How did that get started, anyway?

I’m drawing partly on the description of Derse/Prospit from the Zodiac, but just as much, if not more, from a particular post Hussie made on Tumblr (archived here). where he describes the moons this way:

revolutionaryduelist:

I don’t really think Jade is acting like a Seer at all. At least, I haven’t seen that referenced in the story so far. Roleplay is a way that players deviate from their native active/passive states, but it doesn’t seem to be the only way. Dreaming moons influence players to be more Active (in Derse’s case) or more Passive (in Prospit’s) on their own.

Jade *is* acting more Passive during that section of the story, but that’s explicitly due to her waking up early on Prospit, and Prospit’s Passive influence. I don’t really know that we need more of an explanation for her behavior there.

Similarly, I don’t really think Jade’s ability to see the future is dropped as an element of her character–it just stops being relevant as the timeline catches up to Jade and other characters start waking up.

Everything Jade does is, by Kanaya’s own admission, something Kanaya also does. So unless Seer roleplay is a thing all Space players default to early on (which I suppose is fairly possible–Skaia certainly qualifies as a divine influence), I don’t think that’s what’s up.

It’s important to note *why* I think Rose is roleplaying a Witch. It’s a byproduct of her interest in wizardry and an inability to really understand Mom’s true nature as a Rogue. She isn’t assigned the Witch roleplay from abstract, Skaian forces–she’s driven into it by her own confused admiration of her mom and desperate desire for power.

If Jade is roleplaying a Seer, I’d expect some similar impetus or drive or associated imagery from her. Along those lines, I think there’s *sort of* an argument Jade might be roleplaying a Page, though I kind of feel like Grandpa and Nanna’s relative absences mean there’s not a ton of ancestral influence from them. It’s hard to say.

But if we’re saying active/passive literally translates to offensive/defensive for the sake of this topic, then Derse would be very active and Prospit would be very passive. Derse’s job is to attack. Prospit’s is to defend. This seems to carry over to the roles of the dreamers too. Dave and Rose turned out to be very active players. Dave time traveling all over the place, making a fortune on stocks and such. […]

Being from Derse means you are from a culture of offense and aggression.
Being from Prospit means the opposite. You could argue that these are
qualities that either rub off on the dreamers, or they are designated as
those dreamers in the first place because of those qualities. You could
take the view that these are innate tendencies to overcome, as seemed
to be the case for Jade and Rose.

Or maybe sometimes they are tendencies
that are resisted, and need to be understood and embraced. As a Prospit
dreamer, did Karkat struggle because he was actually passive in nature,
but had a very active self image as a leader and conqueror? Was Vriska
an even more extreme case of misplaced active behavior from a Prospit
dreamer? These are yet more things to consider when looking at
everything contributing to the hero story of an individual in this game.

I was discussing this section with some peeps recently, actually. You might find that conversation useful, at least as far as figuring out where I’m coming from.

As for the item imagery you note–I mean, I tend not to assume roleplay unless there’s some kind of hard evidence to imply it in the text, through description in the narrative prompt or pesterlog dialogue.

The examples you note seem pretty general to me, to that effect. Jade has crystal 8-balls and a Scratch cueball, but then so does Vriska. Vriska even also had special goggles that let her peer into the cueball, where Jade couldn’t–does that mean she was also roleplaying a prophet?

I feel that the focus with roleplay is less on individual actions and more on the impact of role models and interests on the characters’ ways of interacting with the world. Hence why I’m so careful about it.

Trust me, I’d be delighted if I was convinced Jade was roleplaying a Seer,
not the least because it avoids me having to consider any implications that Jade roleplaying a Page makes her more Passive, which I *am* considering but am not in love with.

But if I’m going to be convinced, it’s going to have to be with more evidence. Inversion theory is not canon, and I am left unsatisfied by arguments that posit a character has changed in so fundamental away simply on its merits. If Jade *is* roleplaying a Seer, then I’m sure it’s somewhere in the text and I’ve missed it. But where would she be drawing that influence from?

I remember you said in one post that grimdark Rose (and even Rose just before she turns grimdark) is roleplaying fairly successfully as a witch, but do you have any thoughts on Jade acting like a seer at the very beginning of the story? Like we’re introduced to Jade as someone who has an ability to see into the future, but this is completely dropped as an attribute of her character later on, so I was wondering what you thought of how that coincides with her character development or anything

wakraya:

revolutionaryduelist:

shizukateal:

revolutionaryduelist:

I don’t really think Jade is acting like a Seer at all. At least, I haven’t seen that referenced in the story so far. Roleplay is a way that players deviate from their native active/passive states, but it doesn’t seem to be the only way. Dreaming moons influence players to be more Active (in Derse’s case) or more Passive (in Prospit’s) on their own.

Jade *is* acting more Passive during that section of the story, but that’s explicitly due to her waking up early on Prospit, and Prospit’s Passive influence. I don’t really know that we need more of an explanation for her behavior there.

Similarly, I don’t really think Jade’s ability to see the future is dropped as an element of her character–it just stops being relevant as the timeline catches up to Jade and other characters start waking up.

Everything Jade does is, by Kanaya’s own admission, something Kanaya also does. So unless Seer roleplay is a thing all Space players default to early on (which I suppose is fairly possible–Skaia certainly qualifies as a divine influence), I don’t think that’s what’s up.

It’s important to note *why* I think Rose is roleplaying a Witch. It’s a byproduct of her interest in wizardry and an inability to really understand Mom’s true nature as a Rogue. She isn’t assigned the Witch roleplay from abstract, Skaian forces–she’s driven into it by her own confused admiration of her mom and desperate desire for power.

If Jade is roleplaying a Seer, I’d expect some similar impetus or drive or associated imagery from her. Along those lines, I think there’s *sort of* an argument Jade might be roleplaying a Page, though I kind of feel like Grandpa and Nanna’s relative absences mean there’s not a ton of ancestral influence from them. It’s hard to say.

ok, see… I support a lot your roleplay theory, but this is where I disagree.

Or rather, I think that both your roleplay theory and bladekindeyewear’s inversion theory are both valid interpretations of the same concept of the charactes acting in resistance/defiance of their role and should be applied on a case to case basis and can even sometimes interlope, like in Rose’s case. For example, I think “Aranea is roleplaying as a Thief” is more accurate than “Aranea is overbearing her Sylph role”, but I think Inversion is more accurate in this case. Yeah, Jade is acting more passively due to Skaia’s influence, but why is she so submited to said influence? Vriska, who is putting her to sleep every chance she gets for 13 years of her life to further her own agenda, so Jade’s attitude on life up until she can’t dream with Skaia is to just do what the clouds say, and once she’s forcefully taken out of that position she starts acting more actively, as represented by her actually confronting karkat’s bullshit instead of just blocking him The difference between Jade and Kanaya is that the latter has a normal sleeping schedule and a passive alignment in her class, so she can enact her role with more balance.

Also, I don’t get why you say there’s no imagery associated with Jade as a seer when everyone up to act 4 is calling her a Psychic, has 2 pages were she shows off both her 8-ball and cue ball and later makes a pair of goggles that let her see everything. Not to mention the entire segment of her letter to PM and the cable she left for The Mayor.

My basic standpoint is that WP has said inversion theory isn’t canon, so I don’t have much reason to regard it as an influence in the story. I think Jade is submitted to Prospit’s influence because she dreams a lot on Prospit.

Prospit and Derse are two distinct cultures. They have their own sorts of identities that can influence dreamers on their own. I don’t think you need extra justification to explain why someone is influenced by a place that they grow up in–that happens as a matter of course.

And that’s what Prospit and Derse are to their respective dreamers–provided they’ve woken up. Jade wakes up early, as does Kanaya, and as a consequence both grow up in two different worlds/places/environments simultaneously.

Their exposure to Prospit’s culture also encourages both to act Passively, but Kanaya suffers less for this as she’s already a Passive class. Tavros is another example–he spends the latter part of his game being incredibly passive, and also, it so happens, dreaming on Prospit.

We see from Jadesprite emerging from the Dream Bubbles with her sense of self-indulgent, helpless fatalism that Jade is extremely susceptible to this kind of environmental conditioning, which makes sense, because environments and places are part of what Space describes.

So I view her passivity as being more telling of her nature as a Space player than of inversion, on her part. As for the psychic stuff, I mean. I guess I’m just not all that inclined to regard “psychic” as synonymous with “prophet”.

A Prophet is a pretty specific archetypal image, and all of the classes access psychic power through the Aspects. Heck, the Zodiac’s -Bound designations link Aspect powers to Earthbound, implying Aspects in and of themselves are psychic in nature.

So sure Jade is psychic, but so is literally everyone in the cast, by Homestuck/Hiveswap’s own coding. I don’t think it’s impossible to convince me Jade is roleplaying a prophet here necessarily–I honestly am not confident I have a reading of her early character I’m 100% satisfied with, I feel like I’m missing stuff, and it could well be that.

But again, this implies literally all Space players–or at least all players who wake up early on their moons–will end up roleplaying Prophets. That’s possible, but it’s a legitimate question that I feel warrants searching for an answer to.
I am not convinced inversion is that answer. That’s about where I am.

I should mention, about Aspects being Psychic in Nature and ‘Jade being referred to as a Psychic’, there’s canonical evidence that backs this not being a special Jade case tying her to a more Prophet-like role. It is not an influence on her own nature that is exclusive to Jade, as it’s merely the fact that she’s the only one aware of SBURB’s true Nature before everyone else is, and by Act 4 when she tells John to get his copy of the game, she explicitly says that she’s “No more of a Psychic than John is, he simply doesn’t know it yet.”

If anything, this implication, rather than liken Jade to the Seer, only binds the role of the Heir and the Witch further, but in general it does mention that what she’s doing as an apparent ‘Seer’ is merely watching the clouds skip by and accidentally letting details slip to her friends from time to time. Once they Wake Up, everyone starts to do the same- John sees quite a few things on the Clouds Post-Ascension, Rose communes with the Horrorterrors to a horrifying degree, and Dave learns from them that they’re calling out for Help.

It’s not that Jade is a Seer- Rather, is that both Skaia and the Horrorterrors ARE Prophets, and Jade is the only one with access to these external sources until everyone’s in the game.

I’m not sure Skaia and the Horrorterrors qualify as prophets–they seem more like the divine influences that a prophet would draw insight and power from.
Which sounds like I’m arguing against myself now, but I’m really just quibbling with a nuance. Otherwise I agree completely.

I remember you said in one post that grimdark Rose (and even Rose just before she turns grimdark) is roleplaying fairly successfully as a witch, but do you have any thoughts on Jade acting like a seer at the very beginning of the story? Like we’re introduced to Jade as someone who has an ability to see into the future, but this is completely dropped as an attribute of her character later on, so I was wondering what you thought of how that coincides with her character development or anything

shizukateal:

revolutionaryduelist:

I don’t really think Jade is acting like a Seer at all. At least, I haven’t seen that referenced in the story so far. Roleplay is a way that players deviate from their native active/passive states, but it doesn’t seem to be the only way. Dreaming moons influence players to be more Active (in Derse’s case) or more Passive (in Prospit’s) on their own.

Jade *is* acting more Passive during that section of the story, but that’s explicitly due to her waking up early on Prospit, and Prospit’s Passive influence. I don’t really know that we need more of an explanation for her behavior there.

Similarly, I don’t really think Jade’s ability to see the future is dropped as an element of her character–it just stops being relevant as the timeline catches up to Jade and other characters start waking up.

Everything Jade does is, by Kanaya’s own admission, something Kanaya also does. So unless Seer roleplay is a thing all Space players default to early on (which I suppose is fairly possible–Skaia certainly qualifies as a divine influence), I don’t think that’s what’s up.

It’s important to note *why* I think Rose is roleplaying a Witch. It’s a byproduct of her interest in wizardry and an inability to really understand Mom’s true nature as a Rogue. She isn’t assigned the Witch roleplay from abstract, Skaian forces–she’s driven into it by her own confused admiration of her mom and desperate desire for power.

If Jade is roleplaying a Seer, I’d expect some similar impetus or drive or associated imagery from her. Along those lines, I think there’s *sort of* an argument Jade might be roleplaying a Page, though I kind of feel like Grandpa and Nanna’s relative absences mean there’s not a ton of ancestral influence from them. It’s hard to say.

ok, see… I support a lot your roleplay theory, but this is where I disagree.

Or rather, I think that both your roleplay theory and bladekindeyewear’s inversion theory are both valid interpretations of the same concept of the charactes acting in resistance/defiance of their role and should be applied on a case to case basis and can even sometimes interlope, like in Rose’s case. For example, I think “Aranea is roleplaying as a Thief” is more accurate than “Aranea is overbearing her Sylph role”, but I think Inversion is more accurate in this case. Yeah, Jade is acting more passively due to Skaia’s influence, but why is she so submited to said influence? Vriska, who is putting her to sleep every chance she gets for 13 years of her life to further her own agenda, so Jade’s attitude on life up until she can’t dream with Skaia is to just do what the clouds say, and once she’s forcefully taken out of that position she starts acting more actively, as represented by her actually confronting karkat’s bullshit instead of just blocking him The difference between Jade and Kanaya is that the latter has a normal sleeping schedule and a passive alignment in her class, so she can enact her role with more balance.

Also, I don’t get why you say there’s no imagery associated with Jade as a seer when everyone up to act 4 is calling her a Psychic, has 2 pages were she shows off both her 8-ball and cue ball and later makes a pair of goggles that let her see everything. Not to mention the entire segment of her letter to PM and the cable she left for The Mayor.

My basic standpoint is that WP has said inversion theory isn’t canon, so I don’t have much reason to regard it as an influence in the story. I think Jade is submitted to Prospit’s influence because she dreams a lot on Prospit.

Prospit and Derse are two distinct cultures. They have their own sorts of identities that can influence dreamers on their own. I don’t think you need extra justification to explain why someone is influenced by a place that they grow up in–that happens as a matter of course.

And that’s what Prospit and Derse are to their respective dreamers–provided they’ve woken up. Jade wakes up early, as does Kanaya, and as a consequence both grow up in two different worlds/places/environments simultaneously.

Their exposure to Prospit’s culture also encourages both to act Passively, but Kanaya suffers less for this as she’s already a Passive class. Tavros is another example–he spends the latter part of his game being incredibly passive, and also, it so happens, dreaming on Prospit.

We see from Jadesprite emerging from the Dream Bubbles with her sense of self-indulgent, helpless fatalism that Jade is extremely susceptible to this kind of environmental conditioning, which makes sense, because environments and places are part of what Space describes.

So I view her passivity as being more telling of her nature as a Space player than of inversion, on her part. As for the psychic stuff, I mean. I guess I’m just not all that inclined to regard “psychic” as synonymous with “prophet”.

A Prophet is a pretty specific archetypal image, and all of the classes access psychic power through the Aspects. Heck, the Zodiac’s -Bound designations link Aspect powers to Earthbound, implying Aspects in and of themselves are psychic in nature.

So sure Jade is psychic, but so is literally everyone in the cast, by Homestuck/Hiveswap’s own coding. I don’t think it’s impossible to convince me Jade is roleplaying a prophet here necessarily–I honestly am not confident I have a reading of her early character I’m 100% satisfied with, I feel like I’m missing stuff, and it could well be that.

But again, this implies literally all Space players–or at least all players who wake up early on their moons–will end up roleplaying Prophets. That’s possible, but it’s a legitimate question that I feel warrants searching for an answer to.
I am not convinced inversion is that answer. That’s about where I am.

you act like you’re so innocent but we’ve seen your shipping wall bitch, i can’t fucking believe you call yourself an ally and then you ship johnroxy….just admit you hate wlw lol. roxy likes girls. get over it

landofsomethingsomething:

skitpost:

🙂 here is the post

JohnRoxy is a good ship and this is a good post. Wlw don’t have to ship every fictional woman they like with other women exclusively to be ~valid~ don’t let this egregious hellsite fool you. Tumblr is so disconnected from the real world and fandom has completely abandoned the novel idea that you can like or dislike something without fucking moralizing it to hell and back and without being a total asshole to people whose opinions differ from yours. Not to mention the way bi/pan erasure is allowable and even encouraged and this pervasive and completely ridiculous idea that pairing a woman with a man somehow devalues her, disrespects her or otherwise makes a bi/pan woman less queer.

Fandom should be fun. Ship what you like. This year please consider aggressively blocking and blacklisting people who can’t conduct themselves with respect for other human beings and improve your fandom experience tremendously.

“This year please consider aggressively blocking and blacklisting people who can’t conduct themselves with respect for other human beings and improve your fandom experience tremendously.”

Light, Void and epistemology

the-flowers-ghost:

roselalondetrash:

revolutionaryduelist:

ink-and-homestuck:

Let’s take quick look at Light and Void players:

Light:

Rose: Interested in psychology, especially in Sigmunt Freund’s theories.When she looked for answers she asked outside sources ( Doc Scratch, Kanaya, Horrorterrors). Interested in writing and reading.

Vriska: She has power of stealing someone’s mind, which may be some connection to Rose’s interest in psychology. But more important, she has wide knowledge about history, which she possessed from Mindfang’s journal.

Aranea: She is obliviously interested in history, sociology, and psychology. Her endless speeches about various topics definitely prove that. It’s also worth notice, that her post-scratch self also had historical knowledge (Mindfang knew about Sufferer and Summoner’s revolution in the future. She gained this knowledge as Rose, from outside sources)

Void:

Roxy: She is not only good with computer, she is master hacker. Her pre-scratch self is scientist, probably involved in some kind of space exploration, as suggest observatory in her house.

Equius: His sign is “Sign of Engineer”. He is interested in robotics, probably in coding, too, since making functioning robot requires some level of IT skills. He probably gained skills needed to build Aradiabot by constant training.

Horuss: As was said by Aranea, he is “Renaissance man”, and master of mechanics. His post-scratch self was also interested in robotics. Self made man, who learned everything by himself.

Epistemology:

For those who don’t know, epistemology is theory of knowledge. It helps us tell apart knowledge, assumptions and opinions. It also helps us tell difference between science and pseudoscience.

So, what is has to do with aspects? A lot.

Light players are ones interested in psychology, historiology, books and stories.

Void players show interest in so called “real science”, not in human-centered studies like light players.

One of the most famous philosophers, Karl Popper saw difference between these kinds of science.

What may appear as weird to us he called Freund’s psychology pseudoscience. Now, we consider psychology as valid science, but then Popper had reason to call it that. Why? Because Freund’s theories was formed in the way that makes them seem always right. For example, Freund said that source of psychological problems lies in our past, but some of the issues could be explained by two different causes, for example sucking a thumb could be explained by not being breastfeed enough or being breastfeed too much or (in case of female patient) penis envy. Now psychologists use scientific methods and make their theories disprovable, but still, there are argues in scientific circle about their reliability.

He pointed out that in order to truly know something we have to try to disprove our believes, find ways to measure them and get rid of subjectivity. For example if we want to find out that bad breastfeeding causes thumb sucking, it’s not reasonable to find someone who claims he was fed to much or not enough and who sucks thumb, because these two things may be coincidence. Sadly, Freund’s study was made like that.

Real scientist would define what means to breast feed “too much” and “not enough” in measurable way and examine set of kids that was fed too much and too little and see if there isconnection.

Karl Popper also disapproved historicism, because he thought that any kind of theories are subjective and are not possible to falsify. How we see, Vriska “replays” events that happened to her ancestor, making passively statement that “history repeats itself”. she is also obsessed with idea of luck, that was not accepted by Karl Popper, because it heavy subjective.

Using subjective outside sources (like diaries or tales) was also disapproved by Karl Popper, because it was also subjective.

On the other hand you can’t be wrong in IT field or robotics, because something works or not. You can only gain knowledge that helps you make something that works better. Roxy and Equius are interested these fields. Roxy hacked Sburb game files and Equius was self-learning robotics gaining skills that were useful in constructing Tavros’ robotic legs or Aradiabot. Mom is scientist. Horuss is interesting one. How was said he is a “Renaissance man” . Mainstream philosophers of Renaissance put mind over emotions. Karl Popper’s philosophy was heavily influenced by Francis Bacon, who was one of the first thinkers that proposed setting off subjective data from scientific theories.

Conclusion

Void bound players are bound to non-subjective facts, science and “lean more toward casting doubt on what is already considered fully understood”

Light players are bound to subjective knowledge and outside sources that they “able to take multiple sources of information and synthesize them into something useful.”

@revolutionaryduelist what do you think about that?

Ack, sorry this took so long! I’ve been really busy and I spent a while trying to figure out what I’d want to say.

I have to be honest, my reading skills in terms of like, high level philosophical stuff is not always the best, so I’m kind of having a hard time following the stuff you said about the philosophers.

That said, I think this is a really compelling contrast, and makes me feel more sure about my view that Light is linked to “idealistic” reality/the World of Ideas and Void to “Materialistic” reality/the World of Matter.

In other words, Void players are more attuned to the physical world. Light players deal more heavily in the world of thought/concepts. I’d say I feel a lot more confident in that idea after reading this, so thank you. :B

Critique:

Materialism in Light Players

Rose is interested in empiricism. Her arc in Act 5 Act 2 resolves much on wanting to figure things out for herself through study (destroying her land for the sake of acquiring more knowledge about it). She writes a guide based entirely on her empirical observations of the game, and ponders how to investigate prototyping and alchemy to their fullest extent. She wants to figure everything out in a quantifiable manner.

Vriska is obsessed with quantifying the unquantified. She loves games and stats, which bring substance to things otherwise impossible to make into quantities, like skills and experiences. She loves loot and money. Her very powers make something that is impossible to substantiate (luck) into a quantified resource (all of the luck/none of the luck).

Aranea cares little for philosophy or morals; post-Openbound Aranea and Mindfang are obsessed with goals and winning, with little care for aesthetic or meaning once she escapes her earlier self. She cares little for what other people thing, and acts like she knows everything without concern.

Idealism in Void Players

Roxy is a writer just as much as Rose is. She’s much more feeling oriented than most either characters mentioned here (Rose, Horuss, Equius), too. She knows a lot about history, being from the future and having access to the entire past, like Dirk. She’s also attuned to the most sources, and uses her connections and information to pull her friends together. We never see Mom Lalonde actually do any scientific research save make a ton of cats, and her frivolity and nostalgia are most prominent than her scientist facade.

Equius’ has a clear shtick for philosophy and psychology, wanting everything to fit into his preconceived elitist notions of how people should act and behave (which is a big part of Freudian psychology when applied to the real world, especially during Freud’s time.). Heck, most of his machines half-work (Aradiabot, for instance?) and technological plans can have as many states of being wrong as ideas can, especially when working outside of binary states. Equius is obsessed with past society and culture, too.

Horuss’ arc in Openbound is heavily connected to introspection and self-discovery. He talks about trying fix his “inner void” by finding souls and beings to fill his personality with. This is quite connected to psychology, and Horuss is associated strongly with kinship and systems; things that completely removed from the physical world. He uses all of these sources to create himself, and cares little about what physically exists (such as his relationship with Rufioh).

These are really good points, @roselalondetrash and they are important to keep in mind because the aspects do include parts of each other that make them what they are. I think what @ink-and-homestuck is trying to say though is that the most prominent and visible interests of both these aspects, Light and Void, differ. I hope I talk abt these subjects right, I’m not used to using these terms, but here we go!

LIGHT: While Rose and Vriska do quantify what they do, measure things, and precariously pick apart reality, what they are picking apart is their interests as Light players: psychology, knowledge, fortune. They use effective methods of reaching their goals, and this can connect them to Void’s interest in empiricism, but mostly in methods of approaching their subjects.

VOID: I think similarly the Void players use history and understanding of humanity to meet their own ends! Roxy does have feelings, but that does not mean she cannot be oriented more towards the scientific. As for Mom Lalonde, I think her interest in science was real and solid, not just some facade: she had an expensive house and a laboratory and lived very close to a scientific corporation which she probably worked at, maybe even owned. I don’t think it was just a gimmick!

Equius did hold great stock in history and culture, pushing it onto other people, but it was as if keeping a code, something he saw as constantly proven all around him all the time, and thus he COULD NOT break from it!! He knew this was how the world works, and seeing no evidence to the contrary, he fully believed in it, as a true scientist would! He builds Aradiabot to be what he thinks is “better” because Highbl00ds are better than rust bloods because that is what his society proved to him again and again. Empiricism and science are not always right, and theories are constantly disproven. It doesn’t mean the actions these players had were always going to be right, and to believe so is to believe machines and science are the only things that can be right and humans are only wrong! But both are sometimes right, and both are fallible.

As for Horuss, he has always been angry and strong and focused on building and breaking and his blood color and musclebeasts, all things that require real-life evidence. He’s been continuously interested in these things, and just because he is trying to understand his personality and psychology does not discredit these interests. Nor should his interests in psychology be discounted!! But I think they are different from his usual developments, and also spurn from trying to understand the nature of Void, which is nearly impossible for anyone save a Void player themselves. The aspects are found in each other, and trolls and humans are not usually in lack of other pieces of aspects. Heart and Mind are good examples, it’s hard and pretty much impossible to have one without the other.

I hope this made sense!! I guess in CONCLUSION: The aspects contain pieces of each other in each player, and the major interests usually fall into similar categories. The ways of approaching those interests or of achieving goals seem to draw on other aspects interests, but that does not discount the aspect and the interests themselves, or in other words the means does not discount the subject. i.e. Vriska gaining wealth and quantifying it can be thought of as “wealth=subject” and “gaining and quantifying=means”.

I think there’s been theory about how aspects and their opposites support each other? @revolutionaryduelist may have talked about it in their aspect and classes video, but I don’t exactly remember. Otherwise, the theory is out there, and it may be applicable here. I hope this made sense.

Man this discussion is proving really awesome. I think @the-flowers-ghost hit the nail on the head, with regard to the aspects containing seeds of their opposites, though I def don’t think I presented the view myself.

All I really have to add is that although Equius holds a great passion for culture/the arts, it tends to be couched in either his appreciation for physical things like Strength (Musclebeasts), or a passion for history, as flowers said.

This is critical, because it means Equius is getting his information from the outside, physical world–not from his own inner world. Information coming from Alternia’s history is ultimately coming from the physical reality of Alternia’s universe–or at least, what the empire deems fit to broadcast as such.

In Gnosticism (which in my view plays heavily into reading both Light and Void), the world of Physicality/Matter/Physical Reality is considered the world of darkness, and is generally treated as a realm of misfortune and misinformation.

This is the source of my view that physical reality itself is Void coded.
Equius is interested in Alternian culture, but what that generally means in practice is that he’s invested in trying to force others to subscribe to and live by the lies that Alternia feeds them about themselves, lies which are based on their physical bodies’ blood colors.

Notice how Vriska regards the Hemospectrum as bullshit almost instinctually, despite being very aware of the power dynamics and societal pressures it puts on her. She trusts the story she reads (feat. Mindfang, a character who doesn’t care about the social order and accepts death at the hands of a lowblood) over anything Alternia tells her.

I hope this is understandable? This stuff can get hard to talk about. Also yikes, this is getting long.