catchaloststar submitted:

Hey I totally forget if I already asked you this, but I was reminded by your recent post that I had a question for you about Sylphs and fairies and Vriska’s roleplaying.

Hussie said on his formspring once while talking about god tiers that “Vriska’s true form is that of a pesky, murderous luck fairy,” which seems to go against your theory that Vriska is unhealthily roleplaying her ancestor’s god tier and is not, herself, a fairy at all. https://classesandaspects.tumblr.com/post/130602203382/hussie-god-tier 

How do you reconcile Hussie’s statement with your theory? (Death of the Author is an acceptable answer.)

If you did ask, I never saw it! I think I’ve seen this quote before, come to think of it.

I wouldn’t really use DotA to discard theories because I’m primarily interested in trying to understand the comic as cohesively as possible, and Hussie’s quotes re: mindset with developing it has helped me consider how best to read it many times.

I’d really only say that this particular quote kinda has to be taken in context.
The thing is, Vriska IS definitely a fairy for the entirety of Act 5. It’s coded into the language she’s presented with both textually and visually across the whole deal.

When I say Vriska is a “false fairy”, I don’t mean that she’s incapable of creating a version of herself that plays the role. What I mean is that the roleplaying itself is toxic and unhealthy for her (holding to her Mindfang persona literally kills her, after all), and so it’s ultimately discarded as her character grows. 

The question for me is: why was that element so completely dropped later?
And why is the myth of the Fairy so consistently tied to the Maid and Sylph classes–with the exception of cases like Vriska and Tavros, for whom behaving as fairies ends atrociously?

Hussie has always been cagey about telling us exactly what’s going on. So weighed against the evidence in the comic, I’m inclined to think he’s just leaving stuff out here, given that this quote is from Act 5–before we even knew the Dancestors and could put this stuff together.

Hello! I was listening to Album 9, and saw a song called “Jane Dargason”. I was curious and looked up what dargason meant. It references a type of music, but the page said the word might come from the Anglo-Saxon word for ‘dwarf’ or ‘fairy’. It might be a coincidence, but it supports what you said about Maids and Sylphs relating to fairies, and Jane relating to fairies of the earth. It’s just a cool detail I thought I should mention. :)

Oh shit! You’re right :O That’s really neat, thank you! 😀

So I read the two classpect posts that you’ve posted on medium, and while I don’t agree with all of your class system, the posts are undoubtedly really well written and highlighted things I hadn’t noticed before…. one thing I would like to point out however, is that “fairy-like” isn’t a very strong unifying myth with which to connect Maids and Sylphs, since Vriska (a Thief) references the motif/myth as much as any Maid and Sylph, if not more?

ymawgat:

@revolutionaryduelist

Ok, this is a pretty good reasoning of the motif, however there are still a couple of things I think you’ve missed:

1: Vriska’s motivation for dressing up as fairy is to fulfill the whole pupa pan story, and this is then connected to her GT outfit. She doesn’t do it in conscious reference to her ancestor at all, and I don’t think her admiration for Mindfang is ever verbally or image-ly linked to her fairy motifs? Also Vriska’s tinkerbell reference is also sort of present in WV’s dream, something that isn’t really connected to Tavros?

2: The references to people being fairies are connected to the troll god tier outfit, as is the fairy imagery (butterfly wings, fairy dust – which is connected to tinkerbell in [S]wake but continues to be present in the comic afterwards). The reason I think this is important is that the Maids and Sylphs who aren’t troll god tiers (Jane, Kanaya, Porrim?) are never called fairies, which sort of implies that the motif has more to do with the god tier accesories than it has to do Maids and Sylphs?

Ok, so:

1. You’re right! A lot of Vriska’s playing up the Fairy thing has to do with Tavros…but Vriska wants to win over Tavros because of Mindfang in the first place. And as far as I can tell, these dynamics are just as often presented through…for lack of a better term, narrative game mechanics, as they are through explicit text.

So here’s what I mean: 

No, Mindfang isn’t Literally Called a Fairy. But Alpha Dave’s mythological status as a Knight is only ever mentioned once, in Dirk’s introduction, and Dirk’s quest to act like a Knight whilst trying to live up to Dave’s mythological image pervades every facet of his entire arc. It’s literally the source of his thematic victory, as I’ve written before. (My argument in favor of this view has only grown stronger since I constructed my Class spectrum argument, and it’ll show up some in Serve/Steal as well.)

As far as Mindfang is relevant to the narrative, she exists as a being Made of Light in Vriska’s eyes–her importance, agency and storytelling define her, and this a Light Vriska steals for herself, to make herself feel more important and capable. 

For as long as Vriska is trying to live out Mindfang’s image specifically, and trying to recreate her relationship with the Summoner through herself and Tavros, she spends her time trying to act like a Sylph.

Think about what she’s doing with Tavros: She’s trying to get him to get stronger and more assertive, trying to increase his willpower, trying to get him to become more important. 

If that sounds familiar, it’s because it’s what Aranea successfully does effortlessly with Jake. Vriska tries (and is equally harmful in the process) but she isn’t playing to her strengths like Aranea is. This isn’t her forte or where she excels–it’s a role she’s playing out because it’s Important to her. 

And that’s reflected in the mechanics of how she tries to handle the people around her, just as it does with Dirk and Hal. 

This is also why I don’t think WV’s dream presents a conflict–being a Fairy is something important to Vriska because of Mindfang as much as because of Tavros, though the two are deeply interrelated.

There’s lots of other examples of this in the story, too–I’m fairly certain I’ve missed many even now, since Vriska as a fairy wasn’t on my radar until you sent this. Again, I’ll go over some in more detail as this series goes up.

2. The troll god tier thing is complicated somewhat by the fact that the only two trolls who god tier are…Aradia, a fairy class, and Vriska, who’s trying to fit into the fairy figure. I agree there’s some muddling of themes, but not as much as it seems like. This is because no God Tier trolls are described as fairies besides Aradia or Vriska, and Vriska drops the aesthetic completely after dying/getting punched by John.

It’s also worth noting that the forms of exposition for the classes aren’t always symmetrical–like I pointed out in my Jade essay, Witches’ powerful guardians aren’t literally called Familiars, but by all definitions that’s exactly what they are. The implication is built into the nature of the title Witch, while their complement classes have parallels built up through other means. 

This, again, will hopefully become clearer soon. 

So too it is with a Sylph. Maybe they aren’t literally called fairies as often, but I’d argue they don’t need to be, because a Sylph by definition is a species of Fairy. It’s also untrue that Kanaya is never referred to as a Fairy! She receives the title “Fairy God Troll” in reference to her being Rose’s Patron troll, although Doc Scratch later says this about it:

As she prepares to alchemize new items, she is contacted by her “fairy god troll”, a distinction which does not necessarily have anything to do with being a kid’s patron troll.

She’s the only troll to be described this way, with one exception:
Tavros in this pesterlog with Jade, where he’s described as a Fairy God Troll…and where he attempts to do the same thing Vriska is doing by inserting himself into Jade’s story, and even considers following Vriska’s ideology briefly and controlling Bec over Jade’s protests. 

Tavros ultimately doesn’t end up being Jade’s patron troll–Karkat fills that role, and is not described as a Fairy. Kanaya is described as a Fairy God Troll and successfully lives out the role that implies, setting her apart in this regard. 

Finally, Jane is complicated. Like Kanaya and Karkat, Jane’s entire arc is about struggling to find herself, and she spends a lot of time slotting herself into the role of an Heiress instead–something I think I’m likely to talk about in my essay about her now that I noticed it, ALSO thanks to you so thanks.

I do strongly feel that Jane fits the definition of being Made of her Aspect, however, and that informs a lot of my reading of her character. And also as a result of looking through stuff in answering you, I happened to note that Jane in fact DOES reference a fairy once here!

revolutionaryduelist:

Hey! So, this is a really good point (and is leading me to thinking about Vriska in some interesting new Lights…)

What I will point out is this: I looked it over, and pretty much every time Vriska is referenced as a fairy, it either directly concerns or surrounds a pivotal moment in her arc with Tavros specifically. After [S] Wake, Vriska is never referenced as a Fairy again. 

Vriska also at least somewhat admired two Fairy figures–she thought Kanaya’s lusus was the coolest of all of them, and she literally crafted herself in the image of Mindfang–a Sylph of Light herself.
This is not the only instance of a character from one mythological role actively trying to fit into the context of another. I’ll be going into at least some others–but not all–in the next two posts.
One thing I’m noticing more and more now that I have the understanding I do is that the way these mythological motifs affect different classes is complicated, and that this system has kind of essentially infinite depth. There’s a lot in this story for us to reconsider and rediscover, and I’m very excited about sharing it with you guys. 

Stay tuned 😉 

PS: As I release these essays, I’ll begin tagging posts concerning these mythological figures with their tags instead of going for the more awkward Active/Passive setup. I just think it’ll be more elegant that way, though I might have to think up terms for Prince/Bard and Thief/Rogue, who don’t seem to get them (as far as I can tell right now) because they’re freebies from Calliope. 

Ok, you’ll try it out with one of your less prized possessions just to prove how dumb it is. You never liked this hat much. It makes you look like a gnome and basically isn’t funny at all.

A Gnome is one of many fictional races sometimes described as fairies, and like Sylphs is a species of Elemental–in this case, an elemental of the Earth. 

This is… Relevant to the arguments I was already making for Jane, to say the least. Thanks for leading me to this stuff :B