Dialectic Identity? Thoughts on Fozzer, the Page of Heart:

OK this is gonna be shorter than Marvus obvs but Fozzer DID give me a good amount to think about, so here goes

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Fozzer outright identifying as a dialectical materialist is exciting for a couple reasons. There’s a lot one could say about dialectics and Paradox Space in general (I’ve been trying to write that script for about a year) but here I want to focus on the Materialist half of that, because it immediately reminded me a lot of @arrghus’ idea of the notional/material divide between aspects.

Ever since the Extended Zodiac, we’ve been wondering if the way the Aspect wheel is laid out might suggest some relationships between Aspects, either original to Homestuck, mirroring the relationships the Signs share in the traditional Zodiac wheel, or some combination of both.

Arrghus’ essay series proposes a model for how those relationships might work, at least in part. I’d suggest checking it out for the full picture, but here I want to focus on the divide I find clearest and most compelling: That between the Ideal/Notional Aspects and the Material/Physical ones.

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The gist is this: The top five Aspects (Mind, Hope, Breath, Life, and Light) are more closely aligned with the World of Ideas, and so those bound to them tend to be more concerned with the ideal, abstract, and imaginary. The bottom five (Void, Doom, Blood, Rage, and Heart) are more closely tied to the material, physical, and real.

If you’ve seen my prior writing on Homestuck, you might note that this dovetails easily with Gnosticism’s old cosmology of reality as divided between an imaginary world of Light and a physical world of Darkness. That said, this isn’t a hard binary–Blood obviously refers to some concepts as well as physical experience, and Breath obviously links to some things that happen in physicality, even if those elements are by definition elusive and insubstantial.

Space and Time are an even split, as much conceptual law to be deciphered as they are physical element of reality to be experienced. It could well be that this reflects most strongly in the perspectives those Bound to each Aspect are given to, as opposed to an underlying reality of the Aspects themselves, and in any case all twelve Aspects are necessary to describe a full picture of reality.

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One of the most exciting possibilities this model raises for me is the idea of Aspect “Mirroring”, which is essentially a different kind of relationship Aspects can have. Aspects that are Mirror each other vertically, for example, might express the same ideas through the filter of the Ideal vs. the Material–reflecting the hermetic/magical principle of “As above, so below”.

Heart and Light are a pretty good way to express the relationship between vertically mirrored Aspects, as it turns out. Consider:

In Gnosticism, “Light” refers to directly to Information/Ideas, as the world of Light is the world of the imaginary. This is where “Platonic Ideals” live–the perfect imaginary version of any object, from which all physical manifestations of that object are derived.

Humanity gains the ability to access this world, the self-aware conciousness necessary to think, when the Goddess of Wisdom Sophia descends from that realm and imbues us with her Light–the light of curiosity, of wisdom, of the power to know. The light of the soul.

In this way, we can think of the Soul–the Heart–of living beings as their inner Light, expressed throughout their lives in the realm of physicality. And we can think of Light/Ideas as abstract concepts, that can only enter reality proper through the doorways created by the self-expression of individuals, as enabled by their soul.

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There are a lot of ideas and concepts that Dirk’s soul seems consistently inclined to express onto reality. The shades, the concept of “being a Bro”, the idea of the Hard Anime Dude, Stoicism, the pervasive homoeroticism innate to the Greek ideals he’s generally shaped by, etc.

The clearest example of this might be his sword, which is itself a physical object seemingly ripped directly out of the “fake” (read: imaginary) world of anime. An idea, made physical, through the sheer expression of will manifested by Dirk’s soul.

This is what makes his katana so powerful:

It’s quite near to being a physical expression of our collective idea of the “Perfect Sword”, much like Bro sets an impossible ideal of “Perfect Manhood” that Dave wrestles with living up to. This might give you an idea of some of the more direct ways Heart’s conceptual toolbox could be exploited or weaponized.

The point here is that just expressing the idea of a “Bro” is
extremely important to Dirk, and expressing the idea of “Cats” is
similarly important to Nepeta and Meulin.

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In the same way, Fozzer seems like an acutely intense expression of a political Persona. A philosophical idea, expressed in the physical world as an intense commitment to an associated identity. His shovel is an expression of that identity, much the same way Dirk’s katana or Nepeta’s claws are expressions of theirs.

But then again, Fozzer’s identity ain’t exactly stable, is it?

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Before we talk about The Thing That Happens, we should note that as much as Fozzer seems to genuinely believe in his communist philosophy, he mostly seems interested in it as a means for self-expression, rather than an actual political movement with direct goals and results he’s looking to achieve.

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And even though he’s very intense and earnest about it, Fozzer seems inclined
to exploit his own identity in somewhat self-serving ways.
Unintentionally or no, he more or less uses his ideological speechifying
to conscript the Reader into doing work for him, therefore inviting the reader to Serve him through Heart, for Fozzer’s own benefit.

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This, coupled with his strongly noted cowardice, leads me to consider him a Page. But my real point here is that even if a lot of us here on Tumblr find Fozzer’s ideology appealing, Fozzer seems less invested in ideology proper than with the identity it comes with–and even here, Fozzer isn’t exactly being portrayed as unambiguously Good and Correct.

Even if he’s preferable to the alternative. Sigh.

Let’s talk about the thing.

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[WORLDBUILDING INTERMISSION]

So the biggest surprise of this friendsim was that we stumbled onto what’s basically a swell of Scratch energy just…hanging out under Absence Park, apparently?

Which is. A lot. This energy resets our conversation with Fozzer and changes his personality, which we’ll get into in a minute, but first I want to speculate:
How the hell does this thing exist at all, and what does it even mean? There’s a couple of possibilities.

Since this is essentially Time-coded Scratch energy we’re dealing with, @blindrapture pointed out that it could have something to do with the Handmaid, which I’d expand to include Lord English–and though I doubt it’s directly linked to Scratch himself, since he’s not too associated with Time the way the former two are, he may be aware of or able to use this…”glitch” in reality.

It’s also possible this is a natural consequence of a Scratch, and pockets of leftover Scratch energy like these are present in some locations of Post-Scratch worlds. For that matter, it could be a consequence of John’s retcon powers, which act like the scratch in some ways and might have had consequences we don’t yet fully understand.

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Finally, given the language, I suspect that the hole in Absence Park is actually just a hole into the Void, leading to the Furthest Ring, much like Roxy’s windows. This Scratch energy seems to have entered the Furthest Ring, and is presumably writhing there until circumstances allow it to vent out through this particular entrance to reality.

What are the implications? Who knows. If this is a hole into the Void, then this is another avenue through which Hiveswap’s cast might be able to exit Alternia and find a new world.

If the Scratch outbursts are recurring enough, then we have at least one way for our heroes to “Time Travel” and basically save scum to try and achieve optimal desires results, like saving a troll friend who gets killed by going back in time for example.

That’s probably the biggest takeaway to me, because having a way to time travel built into Hiveswap’s text already makes me that much more sure that no matter what kind of carnage and brutality our beloved troll friends get subjected to, we’re ultimately headed towards a happy ending where probably nobody dies–
I can reasonably see the possibility that even antagonistic figures like Ardata and even Trizza could be saved, under these circumstances.

Ok back to Fozzer.

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So the thing about “Post-Scratch” Fozzer is that I feel he’s being dismissed somewhat due to his admittedly unsavory politics. This still strikes me as a very genuine and direct expression of Fozzer’s Classpect inclinations.

Fozzer is still taking a very materialist view of reality here, for example–he’s interested in the actual physical history of how this system evolved, and considers understanding that history necessary to understanding society.

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And however he disagrees with you, his instinctual response is the same. He storms off after verbally thrashing the Reader, but its interesting that he does it the same way both times: By imposing identities onto the Reader. Hilariously, Fozzer is unwittingly owning alternate versions of himself, too, and unwittingly inviting self-owns is basically the core of the Knight/Page aesthetic.

So really, Fozzer’s core personality is much the same–what’s taken place is a binary flip in the persona he relates to the world with. In one reality, he conveys the ideas of the hopeful revolutionary underclass.

In the other, he projects the identity of a happy and willing member for the Empire’s war-machine–the joyful slave, the pain of his own exploitation cushioned by a strong sense of societal purpose and identity. Note how the shovel easily parses as a strong symbol of this identity, too–a triumphant tool with which to serve the empire, rather than an ironic symbol of oppression.

I don’t think we should be hasty in assuming one Fozzer is more real than the other, even if we’re inclined to like one of them more. Especially since Fozzer works in Absence Park and seems familiar with these lights, meaning these scratch shifts might have been happening to him for a while.

The two Fozzers give us a fascinating window into the nuances of Heart, and indeed we’ve been told this sort of splintering of self can be common to the Heartbound by Calliope. Their opposing ideologies present us with a self-contained dialectic, in fact.

A dialectic at its core is a search for truth carried out by contrasting and comparing two diametrically opposed ideas, which in Hegel’s dialetic at least are defined as the Thesis and Anti-Thesis, respectively.

In Hegel’s understanding of the term, we can only truly understand an individual idea (say: Fozzer) by examining the tensions and similarities between these two opposed perspectives.

And these tensions are usually resolved not by one winning out over the other, but by achieving a Synthesis that combines he best traits of both.

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Maybe because of that, I find the fact that we can only “win” by embracing the “Happy Slave” Fozzer unnerving. It’s hard to say how Fozzer’s path will evolve going forward, but given how central the idea of conflicting opposites is to his expression of his Classpect, I highly doubt we’ve seen the last of “Comrade” Fozzer.

So, I guess we’ll just have to see how it goes?

[Closing disclaimer: I’m not entirely sure how different Marxism’s Dialectic Materialist approach is from Hegel’s Dialectics. For instance, I’m unsure if it also uses the “Thesis”, “Anti-Thesis”, “Synthesis” model Hegel describes, or if I’m accidentally mixing the two.

@gamblignant8 on the Perfectly Generic Podcast described Dialectic Materialism as being Hegel’s Dialectic applied with a focus on physical reality, mixed with an analysis of humanity’s historical evolution on the physical plain.

Cursory Wikipedia research seems to bear this out, with Marx even describing Dialectic Materialism as simply the opposite of Hegel’s more philosophical and idealistic take on the idea, which Marx regarded as full of “Mysticism”. As a Hopebound more comfortable with the ideal than the material myself, I suppose its no surprise I find Hegel’s dialectics more immediately approachable and comfortable, for now.

What I’m saying here is, take everything I’ve written about dialectic materialism here with a grain of salt: I’m trying to do my homework and make sure I have the facts straight, but it turns out philosophy can get hard to sum up, especially when you’re trying to reconcile it with a fantasy metaphysics system. Feel free to clarify if I’ve messed details up. ]

callmearcturus:

i don’t really go in for unpopular opinions and hot takes, but there is one that i am reluctant to share, one i really think will cause real backlash, one that will make you all dive for a fainting couch in dismay

Keep reading

I love persona so much and also atlus has failed me every step of the way so I hate it

In part II of this mini-series on the Hero Titles, we take a closer look at the Classes. Reading them through the lens of Carl Jung’s mythic Archetypes and the existential duality of Yin/Yang, we develop an understanding of the Active/Passive split between classes and begin to get a sense of the broader system that defines each one. 

This also marks the announcement of another arm of this venture:
Comments response videos. From now on, I want to make you guys part of the conversation, so messages or questions sent to me on Tumblr, Twitter, or wherever may appear in videos as we converse and try to understand the nature of Hiveswap and Homestuck’s stories.

Wakraya’s (FAN-MADE) Class test can be found here!: https://homestuckexamination.tumblr.c… 

You can find the Class cards used in this video here: https://revolutionaryduelist.tumblr.c… 

You can support this project at: 

https://www.patreon.com/optimisticDue… 
https://liberapay.com/optimisticDuelist/
https://ko-fi.com/U7U16EJZ 

Or follow us on social media!:
https://revolutionaryduelist.tumblr.com
https://twitter.com/RoseOfNobility
https://www.facebook.com/HomestuckExp… 

Carol S. Pearson’s 12 Heroic Archetypes: http://www.carolspearson.com/archetyp…
http://www.uiltexas.org/files/capital… 

“Jade Sylph”,
by Frank Haught https://homestuck.bandcamp.com/track/… 
Track Art by Michelle Czajkowski : https://www.patreon.com/avasdemon 

“Play the Rain”, 
by Robert Blaker   https://homestuck.bandcamp.com/track/…
Track Art by Suki: gingerybiscuit.tumblr.com
“Made of Time”,
by James Roach https://homestuck.bandcamp.com/track/…
Track Art by Alexia Khodanian: http://alexiadraws.tumblr.com 

The opening’s background music is The Poem For Everyone’s Souls, from the Persona soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?
Intro music is “Nemuro Kinenkan”, from Revolutionary Girl Utena: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8luvp…

Hey, chums!
This time, we take a look at the Hero Titles, also known as Classpects. 
Let me know what your Class and Aspect is in the comments, and say
whether Classpect videos on different characters sounds interesting to you! 

Also, an announcement. After December 1st, I’ll be changing the Patreon to charge per video post, rather than monthly. 

Thanks for everything, and as always,

Keep Rising.

[Patreon] [Hiveswap Discord]

Here’s a couple of resources that may be of interest to Classpect fans who haven’t heard about Jungian Archetypes or Carol S. Pearson’s system, in case you find it interesting:

http://www.uiltexas.org/files/capitalconference/Twelve_Character_Archetypes.pdf

http://www.carolspearson.com/about/the-12-archetype-system-a-model-for-discovering-your-archetypes/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungian_archetypes

nelfes:

revolutionaryduelist:

tuffgreg replied to your post “Whuh oh you mentioned Persona so I gotta ask: How much do you know…”

it’s not QUITE as blatantly homophobic as persona 4 but its plot is way, waaaay better and has cooler themes & story & characters & villains & mechanics overall. i totally recommend it, if u need a more solid pitch hmu & i can provide

I believe you. Like, its really important for me to be clear that all of my criticizing is grounded in a sense of love, I am not going to escape persona as a franchise until i die because it was too formative and important to me. If I had the money and free time i’d already have played p5. 

It just also makes me furious and anything I say about the games critically has to incorporate the abject failure I perceive from them re: dealing with LGBT rep, and thus human attraction, on any meaningful level. 

like p4 had HOW many remakes and they never decided to dust off yosuke’s old cut romance arc with the protagonist and put it in the game? they had lines RECORDED for that shit before they cut it, it’s cowardice, pure and simple. 

this stuff changing was my one big hope for p5 and ive been repressing the anger ever since but if i’m going to suck the games dick for its perfect aesthetic and fascinating themes (and i WILL, believe me i will if i ever get the chance to produce actual Content™ about it) i am definitely, definitely also taking the opportunity to complain about the franchise basically showing me the door when it had the chance and LITERALLY THOUGHT about including me in the playground

like Persona has literally gone backwards here, Persona 2 had two protagonists who could be in a relationship! I forget their names but im sure @alotofmomos or @nelfes know. It’s infuriating. 

Anyway i am serious for all my complaining feel free to drown my submission and asks in instances where Persona 5 touches on Gnostic stuff, even if you’re not sure about it i’ll be happy to take a look because…i love these games and know I will love whatever stuff p5 dumps on my anguished, conflicted face 

HI YES DID SOMEONE MENTION MY CANON BISEXUAL SON TATSUYA SUOU AND HIS BOYFRIEND HE EXCHANGED VOWS W IN FRONT OF A BRIDAL SHOP HERE I AM

there we go. so yeah persona 2 is probably the outright best at this stuff its a shame its a TRAGEDY OR WHATEVER

tuffgreg replied to your post “Whuh oh you mentioned Persona so I gotta ask: How much do you know…”

it’s not QUITE as blatantly homophobic as persona 4 but its plot is way, waaaay better and has cooler themes & story & characters & villains & mechanics overall. i totally recommend it, if u need a more solid pitch hmu & i can provide

I believe you. Like, its really important for me to be clear that all of my criticizing is grounded in a sense of love, I am not going to escape persona as a franchise until i die because it was too formative and important to me. If I had the money and free time i’d already have played p5. 

It just also makes me furious and anything I say about the games critically has to incorporate the abject failure I perceive from them re: dealing with LGBT rep, and thus human attraction, on any meaningful level. 

like p4 had HOW many remakes and they never decided to dust off yosuke’s old cut romance arc with the protagonist and put it in the game? they had lines RECORDED for that shit before they cut it, it’s cowardice, pure and simple. 

this stuff changing was my one big hope for p5 and ive been repressing the anger ever since but if i’m going to suck the games dick for its perfect aesthetic and fascinating themes (and i WILL, believe me i will if i ever get the chance to produce actual Content™ about it) i am definitely, definitely also taking the opportunity to complain about the franchise basically showing me the door when it had the chance and LITERALLY THOUGHT about including me in the playground

like Persona has literally gone backwards here, Persona 2 had two protagonists who could be in a relationship! I forget their names but im sure @alotofmomos or @nelfes know. It’s infuriating. 

Anyway i am serious for all my complaining feel free to drown my submission and asks in instances where Persona 5 touches on Gnostic stuff, even if you’re not sure about it i’ll be happy to take a look because…i love these games and know I will love whatever stuff p5 dumps on my anguished, conflicted face 

anotherwitchofbreath replied to your post “Whuh oh you mentioned Persona so I gotta ask: How much do you know…”

P3P is the only non homophobic persona. the only game that explores gnostic themes deeply in all of the series is not a persona, its shin megami tensei 3. its such a beautiful and moving take on it too. emulate that if you ever want to skip the bullshit and get to the real stuff, somehow the corporation wasnt able to screw that one up

so i should cop to being an immense Shin Megami Tensei nerd at this point, I guess? I’ve played Nocturne and I fucking love it, though I’ve never finished it.
I definitely think you’re right that it comes the closest to delivering on the franchise themes from what I have consumed of it, which is, a lot. Most of the game through various lps and cutscenes and stuff even for what i havent played.

though there’s a couple other SMT games I also think are good: 

Devil Survivor aims and lands mostly high even though it is AGAIN hamstrung by twee anime shit, I like SMT: Strange Journey a TON and it has Very Little of that garbage for the most part,

Persona 3 (Portable) is indeed probably the best persona for being non-homophobic though ironically it plays with LGBT themes a lot less than 4 (i have no idea how 5 does it other than i know theres no same sex romance options which, fuck that)

i could like seriously do a youtube series just about this franchise and probably will someday i love smt so much

Would you elaborate on your love/hate relationship with Danganronpa?

Like Persona, it deals with themes of individual desire vs. societal pressure, and it STRIVES to be very honest and imaginative about its’ characters relationships with themselves, the world around them, and each other. This usually gives us a cast that feels a lot more like people than your typical anime shlock, and they tend to leave memorable impressions on me.

It helps that the games are honest in dealing with themes like abuse of all kinds, lust, escapism (including religious/cultish escapism which is fascinating), and apocalyptic, suicidal ideation, it all just…it speaks to me a lot, and its cool? Junko is such a cool fucking concept, and also a muse of doom, and i dig everything the games are about CONCEPTUALLY.

In EXECUTION, Dangur Ranpo is ALSO like Persona in that it’s CONSTANTLY undercutting its extremely powerful themes and writing to pander to what i’ll call Shit Anime Tropes–objectifying its female characters (poor fucking mikan in dangan ronpa 2, GOD), maintaining the “humor” value of the Lecherous Dudes (why the fuck is Souda not dead, thanks?), and skimping out on the LGBT rep it flirts with (everything with Chihiro, lgbt themes being either relatively scarce or usually linked to “fucked up” characters like Mikan or Komaeda).

In sum total, both end up being works I feel profoundly frustrated by because thematically and artistically they speak to me like little else, but their messages are constantly muddled by the regurgiation of fucked up gender essentialism/heteronormativity/male gaze that pervades so many lazy Shit Anime Tropes, which is profoundly alienating to me as a queer dude.

bla bla different cultures yeah, i don’t really think culture is above criticism any more than art is, and anyway i interacted with these properties primarily through the work of professional localization teams meant to transfer their themes to something resonant with the audience i originate from. as far as i’m concerned, the reproduction of those shitty habits constitutes an automatic betrayal of artistic integrity, so both franchises would be massively improved by distance from That Bullshit. 

This isn’t even like, a political thing? It’s mostly just that I want more honest, less lazy writing. Stories about the inherent personhood of all and rising to find yourself through the unfair pressure of The System shouldn’t default to like, mocking overweight people, you know? I know what these writers are capable of because they routinely brought me to tears with euphoria with their storytelling. They can do better. 

Whuh oh you mentioned Persona so I gotta ask: How much do you know about P5? Cause I’m not saying that there’s some really really explicit Gnosticism stuff in it (done in really really stupid cheesy anime flavor of course) but I’m also not not saying it.

I know Yaldabaoth is a boss so I am, of course, immensely interested and like, it’s Persona? I know it’s gonna be great and own me hard and make me think things and the aesthetic and music will be killer. I love Persona games so fucking much. 

I also know it also ramps up the presumed heterosexual anime twee bullshit up to like, a million, making it worse than even Persona 4 managed maybe? So like. As usual it is Persona’s extreme cocktail of incredibly fascinating world and character building and INCREDIBLY frustrating corporate-conservative queerbaity bullshit. 

I definitely, without question am going to play Persona 5 eventually. But it’ll probably wait until I am living comfortably off this youtube business because those games are such an enormously long timesink and also, they make me furious, and i love them. 

Feel free to @ me at length about whatever more gnostic stuff it has going on besides ol’ yodelboner. I’m definitely interested, I just don’t have the money to engage with Persona atm nor the patience to wade through the bullshit.

If possible, I think you’d like to play or watch someone playing danganronpa v3. Let’s just say I found it rather similar to your works.

i have such an intense love/hate relationship with the danger rumpus that i am immediately interested and also appalled at the thought of engaging with the franchise again. kinda how i feel about persona?

im sure i’ll play it eventually, inevitably. Once the youtube channel grows enough i would loooove to branch into doing review videos of stories that have a LOT OF POTENTIAL but also really big problems like both of these examples so it’s definitely something i’m considering down the line