The Influence of the True Signs or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Trollcall

ancient-trolls:

Okay! This musing is my first writings on one of these more critical Homestuck theories I’ve written that doesn’t have to do with professional wrestling or OCs. Let’s make it a good one.

If you’re even a casual Homestuck fan, you’ve likely heard about the Trollcall. It is part of arguably the most significant paradigm shift in Homestuck’s history, the Extended Zodiac, and by extension Hiveswap as a whole. For the first time in AGES since the small crumbs given to us by Hussie or concept art of the game; we’re finally getting a look at the world of Alternia beyond the 12 central trolls. Fantroll fuel is in effect; theories have been jossed, created, enforced, everything we knew about the aspects shifted and we’re still accommodating these changes.

Naturally, this has brought about some resistance. As is the case whenever there’s a significant change to a field, there are those hesitant, if not outright hostile, to the ideas presented. An example of this can be the people who still don’t think that Karkat’s connection to the Limeblood caste is in some way not explicit. Like, god damn people, get your head out of the dirt. It’s right there with the other Lime signs.

I went off-topic there previously, but my general point here is that there are aspects to this paradigm shift that people have taken issues with. A particular area is the Trollcall; this being WhatPumpkin’s way to tide over the wait for Act 2 by drip-feeding us more and more nuggets of lore for Alternia in the fashion of introducing the background caste of the game. The issues people have taken with it is that most of the trolls are just facets of the 12 Beta trolls just exaggerated. The Tealbloods are a common caste to point fingers at where most if not all seem to have some connection to law and (in)justice in some way. Or we could look at the Goldbloods who seem to be bee-focused psionic machines with weird eyes and duality throughout them. This apparent lasseiz-faire attitude towards the castes goes on and on: feral/rural olives, artistic and verbose Indigos, yes, INDIGOS you plebs, fashionable Jadebloods, etc.

You hear it, “This troll is just X but Y!”, “This [motif] was meant to be for [beta troll], it doesn’t make SENSE that it’s applied to them all!”. Continually hearing this over and over and over, it’s maddening. Is WhatPumpkin lazy? Is this bad design? Were things better before Hussie ‘gave up’ and hired all these god damn SJWs? (This is me being facetious, naturally).

My goal with this likely-to-be large mass of writing is to dissuade, or at least explain why I don’t hold these views that the TrollCall trolls are a terrible thing or lazy design. Man, it’s easy to say these things when I’m in control of writing the complaints. Minus one point to this essay I guess. The way I’ll hopefully present my view on this ‘issue’ is by talking about an unexpected development of the Extended Zodiac, the ‘True Signs’, and how they can be used to explain away the issues that some may take with the apparent path WhatPumpkin is steering Alternian society and trolls as we know them down.

Taz has written about the influence of the True Signs before. They write mainly in the context of how the True Signs explain what some may see as inconsistencies with Xefros having so many elements of a Time player despite actually being a Rage player. The general ethos is the same, the True Signs are subconscious ‘ideals’ for each caste, and each caste is under enough pressure to act to these ideals despite it not being their natural calling.

When people like Taz, Wak, or other theory blogs, prominent (them) or obscure (me), talk about the influence of the True Signs, they mainly approach it from a classpect perspective. That doesn’t quite help me in explaining the aesthetic similarities of the Troll calls to the beta trolls. What I’m going to focus on are the genetic and social ramifications of the True Sign’s influences. My main, and likely only point as my mind buzzes writing this, is that the True Signs play a far more considerable impact on their respective castes than we think.

The end goal of an SBURB-created universe, that is, a universe, is to create the next group of players for the following game. The trolls of Alternia were the race fated to play SBURB. Therefore it can be said that the ultimate end goal of Alternian society was to create the beta trolls and raise them to game-playing age.

With this in mind, along with the substantial influence of Doc Scratch on Alternia, it can be said that the True Signs, aspect and moon at least, are the ultimate archetypes of each caste to slowly evolve to create a player who fulfils all the requirements to play. The way I see it work is akin to a mould, or a filter.

We’ll look at the Goldbloods for this example. Sollux was the True Sign Goldblood fated to play the game for Alternia. Therefore every single Goldblood before him can be seen as various attempts to create him, or as evolutionary steps to eventually reach him. I’m not saying that there’s an overt effort to create Sollux Captor with every Goldblood, at least on Alternia’s part. To Alternia, the Gemini sign holds no actual significance. It’s a Goldblood sign for regular ass Goldbloods. Who cares?

SBURB cares is who. It’s said in the description of every True Sign that those who are a True Sign have a more significant connection to the caste than others. With this information in mind, it can be inferred that the True Signs are SBURB’s ‘model’ for the respective players. With sweeps and sweeps, generations and generations of this cosmic pressure on the caste, it makes sense that the caste as a whole would begin to exhibit traits and qualities of the last bearer of SBURB’s burden for his kind.

We can see in this in how Zebede is an ‘aspiring beekeeper, how Kuprum has a form of vision two-fold and acts as a battery-in-training, how Folykl… Well, Sollux isn’t born blind but considering that Kuprum embodies a role that Sollux takes up later in the story, it’s possible Folykl does as well with Sollux’ eventually blindness, another quirk of the True Sign influence. To loop back to genetics, we can easily see the influence of Sollux’s duality with the presence of two sets of horns on Goldbloods. The dual horns are a basic facet of Sollux and are an easily shown effect of True Sign influence. The fact that Zebede and presumably other goldbloods out there lack vision Two-Fold suggests that it’s not quite become a caste standard that dual horns have so far. You can carry on this pattern with every member of the Trollcall. This explanation may not satisfy you; you may even say “Well it’s still bad design on WP’s part!”

To respond to that, I merely have to point out that this is Alternia for chrissakes. The place has a genetically distinct caste system, which is grounds for stating that the Alternian government plays it’s part in enforcing this Darwinist approach to the True Signs, albeit unintentionally. If you really want to get a sense of overt manipulation, look no further than Doc Scratch. The 12 beta trolls are part of the long cycle of the creation of Lord English, who Doc Scratch is also the host of. Furthermore, two of the fragments of Lord English are the Alternian trolls themselves. Well, one-and-a-half of the fragments, Equius and half of Gamzee. Any deviation from these two designs wouldn’t lead to LE’s creation, and we can’t have that now, can we?

Scratch’s influence trickling down through Alternian powers can even be seen in how the Alternian government plays a part. By valuing beneficial mutations where they’d fit such as Vriska’s MC powers, Sollux’s vision two-fold and Equius’ STRONGNESS. They are unknowingly playing a part in their eventual demise by breeding and nurturing the right conditions to form the players who will wreck everything in the process of doing so, and that’s too perfectly poetic for me to not see as grounds for this stance.

If you have any responses, additions, or other such valuable contributions, feel free to reblog or message me! I can only promise that the responses will be at least sub-par.

I hadn’t realized these design similarities had people complaining.
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, haha. I like this post a lot! I agree pretty much completely, and it kinda makes me really happy to see other people picking up the same thread. So I’ve just got a few things to say:

1) It’s true that I’ve written about it a lot, but credit for starting the True Sign Caste-Influence theory rightfully goes to @wakraya. She’s the one who made the connections in the Extended Zodiac proper! I don’t think you implied otherwise or anything, I’ve just been meaning to say so because I’ve seen some people attribute the theory itself to me, when I just happen to think Wak nailed it.

2) You got into this later in the post, but personally, I put the emphasis much more on Lord English/Scratch caring about/being behind this particular means of producing the players than on Sburb having any particular agency/will behind it.

It’s worth mentioning that making this batch of players is what Scratch is on Alternia to do–LE arranged for this by glitching the Alpha Troll’s session and forcing them to Scratch in the first place.

LE has always been themed as a mob boss–Put another way, a crony capitalist with no regard for others’ lives. Conscripting all of Troll-kind into what is essentially a millenia-spanning, empire-wide factory line meant to produce a specific set of Correct™ trolls sounds about right, from that perspective.

By putting each troll Caste through whatever combination of genetic alteration and/or socioeconomic pressure is necessary to eventually produce the Players, Scratch can ensure their creation while minimizing his personal labor.

If that leads most trolls in history to be unhappier and less able to understand themselves, their true natures, and that of those around them–then that’s a nice bonus to LE, who would be cruel for fun even if he didn’t particularly have it out for trolls out of spite for Calliope.

3) Speaking of which, if this is true, it might go some ways to explaining why some trolls have more psychic power than others. Impossible to say for sure at this point, obviously, but when Act 2 drops I’ll be interested in seeing how trolls with different Aspects relate to their troll powers.

So after you’ve pointed out that Dammek has some Breath aspect associations and Xefros Time aspect associations, I realized that it might have something to do with the alpha and beta troll’s aspects – as in, Dammek being a bronzeblood and having breath stuff goin’ on is kinda reminiscent of the Nitrams being Breath players. Is it possible that blood caste has some sort of “aspect influence” and what makes a true sign a true sign is actually having the aspect your caste is associated with?

Yeah, as far as I can tell blood caste has some kind of Aspect Influence. Possibly dreaming moon, too, since the “True Signs” are those that match the Homestuck trolls’ Aspect *and* dreaming moon.

I’ve been writing about that here on and off, but I don’t think I’ve mentioned yet that the Extended Zodiac itself suggests this might be the case:

This bit of text shows up for every True Sign, matching them to their corresponding Sign Class. So it seems that there’s some kind of relationship to them, indeed.

crowdcontrolhs:

revolutionaryduelist:

“cold-and-blue-blooded replied to your post “look i am telling you, the…”

Sollux is not the only genius

“cold-and-blue-blooded replied to your post “look i am telling you, the…”

There are plenty of other sessions. That is canon.

This is incorrect, dude. Feel free to pull up the “canon” you’re referring to, because nobody else on Alternia plays Sburb before the planet’s life ends.

There are other sessions out there in Paradox Space, but not every planet spawns the same amount of sessions. Earth had a ton of them because Grandpa distributed Sburb as a worldwide game event.

That is not the case on Alternia. It’s not that Sollux is the only genius on the planet, but that he’s the only one with access to the game code. Aradia finds the game code in her Frog Temple, and spends almost all her time at said frog temple before the game begins.

The only other temple is Kanaya’s, who similarly lives right with hers, and neither perspectives show us wily other trolls sneaking into frog temples to design a video game.

The difference between Sollux and Grandpa is literally pointed out in the story.
Barring new information surfacing in Hiveswap, we have no reason to think anyone else on the planet plays Sburb at all.

And even if they did, that wouldn’t change the fact that the Alpha Trolls’ scratch was meant to create a world (Alternia) that would make the next crop of players strong enough to win (the beta trolls.) So it kind of changes nothing about what their place in the planet’s historical context is.

Not to mention it literally says on the extended zodiac test that if you have a “true zodiac sign”, your affiliation with the respective blood caste is “even stronger than you thought.”

Does this not imply that the trolls who possess these signs are, y’know, special? Does this not imply that the trolls who possess these signs embody the traits of their blood caste?

This says to me that, for example, those of the rust blooded caste have more ties with Derse and Time than any of the other aspects or Prospit. Because, according to this description, if you are a Rust blood, a Time player, and a Derse dreamer, your affiliation with the Rust-blooded class is “even stronger than you thought.” Right?

oh SHIT. I had no idea that line was a thing!

I’m gonna have to run this by my more skeptical friends but yeah that definitely sounds like a confirmation that the True Signs and the Sign Classes are linked to me. it doesnt stop from keep happening. Thanks!!

soooo, with the new aspects descriptions and the traits they are focusing on and putting in the spotlight as major defining traits of those aspects, do you think you’ll reconsider Joey as Life now instead of Light? (and Jude as Light instead?)

I hadn’t really gotten to Jude yet at all–he still seems like a Doom player, but now I’m more uncertain about all of them.

I have been reconsidering Joey as a Life player pretty heartily, actually, BUT…I think in the end, at least so far, it’s only left me more sure she’s a Light player.

But the reason why, I think, suggests some new infomation relevant to how the Classpect system works. I’m curious to know what you’ll think about it!
And since I’m about to record this in video form and it’s pretty overwhelming and difficult to talk about, I think it’ll help to get my thoughts in order somewhat, so I think I’ll do some prep here.

My logic goes something like this:

Xefros is a Rage player. Looking back at Act 1, it’s actually all there in his Page behavior!
While Xefros himself isn’t angry or upset, he does continually frustrate, anger, and confuse Joey, essentially giving/serving her Rage (in my reading of Knights/Pages, of course).
What’s more, eventually Joey’s anger stops being directed at Xefros and starts being directed at Dammek and Alternia at large, on Xefros’ behalf.

In this reading, we can understand Dammek keeping Xefros away from the sopor slime as “training” to be a form of serving him Rage, too–the Sopor Slime just keeps trolls away from the chucklevoodos, and the chucklevoodos have already been equated to Rage before. Xefros has been given Rage, to his own benefit.

I had figured that, if Xefros was a Page of Time, he’d eventually gain a Warrior to defend/fight for him through his communion powers–Xultan filled the niche perfectly. Seemed like a solid way to get Xefros to a Brain Ghost Dirk-type power boost or whatever. But Joey is ALREADY one of Xefros’ champions at the end of Act 1, and Xefros got her there mainly through Rage. Pretty solid echo of how Jake won over Dirk initially, or how Tavros won over Vriska/Aradia/Terezi (obviously, all of these to varying degrees of success).

So yeah, Xefros as a Page of Rage checks out. One critical difference, though: Jake and Tavros were already inclined to think in terms of Hope/Breath respectively at 13. While Xefros apparently has a considerable Ragey influence on Joey, he doesn’t seem to be thinking in Rage terms much himself. In Act 1, Xefros’ conscious THOUGHTS center around…

Time. It’s not just him, either–Dammek has some pretty hefty Breath implications, especially once you consider that the hoverpad he took from Xefros is essentially an object of detachment and flight. But we know Dammek is a Blood player, as opposed to Breath.

The bottom line is, there’s just too much DRAMATICALLY CAPITALIZED TEXTUAL EVIDENCE linking Xefros to Time and Dammek to Breath to be outright ignored. We don’t know either way with Joey, but she certainly thinks lot about both Life and Light, and one of them presumably has to be her actual Aspect.

The way I see it, there’s two possibilities at play at this point. It’s totally possible, of course, that all of that stuff was just misdirection, or just stuff we weren’t meant to take seriously or read into.

But if that’s the case, I’m not sure the fandom can ever actually accurately deduce a character’s classpect based on canon clues. Xefros has some Rage behavior, but it wasn’t telegraphed nearly as strongly as the Time stuff.

So maaaybe WP doesn’t particularly care for this type of speculation? Maybe the Time stuff was just like, general writing, and we’re not really meant to dig into the lore here and try to pick out clues and Figure Shit Out, like I thought we were being invited to do?

That would suck for me, but I would accept it. Hiveswap still has a stellar narrative with plenty of background lore to dissect and explore, Classpect stuff to look through or no. I’d be cool with just waiting for the narrative to tell us what’s going on outright, too.

However, until we know for sure one way or the other what WP intends, I’d like to keep regarding the Classpects as a coherent system with rules that can be figured out and considered in assessing characters’ natures and potential character arcs.

And there’s still the other possibility:

Calliope told us player abilities can manifest “in defiance with their Aspects” under the right circumstances. We’ve seen this in Homestuck, most clearly with Rose, which a lot of the fandom (you included, if I remember right?) has parsed under inversion theory.

I differ in that I parse it through Roleplay. It seemed to me that players attempting to act out a different Class, or being forced into acting as one, was always the source of these Aspect “shifts”.

So Rose manifests Void not because Witch is Seer’s natural opposite, but because Rose is interested in Magicians and wizards and wants to take an Active role in Changing the fate of the session.

But I wasn’t sure if we were dealing with Aspect inversion, ie: the player simply switching to the opposing Aspect, or if the Aspect side of the system was even more flexible and players could focus on any other Aspect in the spectrum, too.

This is the first clear indication I’ve seen for the latter interpretation.
My current best guess for why Xefros has all this Time focus and Dammek has all this Breath focus is that the blood castes, on Alternia, are somewhat stereotyped in favor of their corresponding Aspects.

There’s a cultural bias predisposing members of each Caste to think in terms of the Caste’s True Sign Aspect. This is why Xefros implies all Indigos are super strong, but Equius’ introduction says he’s strong because he’s kind of a freak.

It’s why Goldbloods are the class used to power ships and the like, but Sollux is a mutant, and Vriska says psiionics are a nasty variant of power that goldbloods only “sometimes” have. I reason this based on the naming structure the system itself uses, as sleuthed out by @wakraya .

And it sort of makes sense, given Lord English nor Doc Scratch would care to figure out the nuances of every individual troll–the founders of the hemospectrum as it exists on Alternia only had the profiles of the twelve trolls Gamzee and Equius knew to work with, while guiding society’s development of the Caste system.

And this is a fascist, exploitative system, so I would’ve found it odd if it was actually good for the characters to begin with, to be honest?

So if each Sign in a Caste is linked to a different Aspect, but the Caste as a whole is stereotypically connected with or pushed into conforming to one particular Aspect…

Then we’re looking at a world where a lucky few would have the social advantage of being told about their own latent potential through their Aspect
(not that they couldn’t confuse themselves perfectly fine, if they were so inclined), but the great many were kept confused by stereotypes, and the contrast between their inner worlds and their own biological powers.

This conflict would be different for everyone, and would become even worse factoring in the variety of roles further imposed by society–like Dammek and Xefros being forced into Butlering.

The end result? A society where almost nobody is given the time and space to figure out who they truly are, and where almost everyone is playing against their strengths in some regard. As a bonus, almost everyone is stressed out, because they’re not allowed to do what would naturally make them happy.

Sound like Alternia to you? It does to me.
And fostering that kind of widespread societal confusion certainly sounds like something you’d want to do if you were Doc Scratch or the Empress. What better way to keep the threat of uprising at bay?

As for how it relates to Joey, well–if Aspect roleplay is a thing, then Rose might well have gone grimdark at least partly in imitation of Roxy. And if A. Claire is indeed a mutant clone of Jane Crocker like I suspect, then suddenly Joey has a profound admiration for a Mom she desperately wants to be like.

Hilariously, that means her Maid behavior might be roleplay instead of her actual Class, so I might be debunking myself here! But I’m a little more inclined to think her admiration is manifesting as an interest in the Life aspect in general.

The key thing for me here is that her interest in Life has a potential source, that we can put under scrutiny going forward. Her interest in Light has no such apparent source, other than her own nature. Hence why I’m still falling on Light as her innate Aspect, at least for now.

As for Jude–I don’t even know right now, there’s too much going on. I’ll have to revisit him once the dust settles and I have some answers I’m more confident about. He certainly seems like someone chosen to suffer in Act 1, though, man. Poor kid.

I might be reading too much into it, but it seems like a pretty solid way to use Classpects to tell us about the violent and cruel nature of Alternian society. Whether I’m right or wrong about any of this, though, Act 2 is going to be
very interesting. We stand to learn a lot!