What do you think Dammek’s obsession with making Xefros a butler is about? It would seem to me if Dammek wants to overthrow the hemospectrum, he wouldn’t be emulating an unequal class structure. I’ve read the theory that he’s secretly a highblood and is a double agent, but that seems unconvincing to me. Could it be because he wants to infiltrate a highblood place by pretending to be butlers? Any thoughts?

I don’t buy the double agent/highblood thing at all, it’s effectively random as far as I can tell. 

Dammek isn’t particularly trying to make Xefros a butler, though. Alternia does just fine at that on pain of death. 

What I DO think Dammek is guilty of is having Xefros serve him, specifically. But the exact way that’s fucked up seems a bit more nuanced, because Xefros describes his servitude to Dammek as Butler PRACTICE, and not getting enough practice is, again, literally lethal to Xefros if he isn’t good enough.
So I can see how both Xefros and Dammek might justify the treatment, though my guess is Dammek is probably too self-centered to think it through like that and most likely just sort of takes it for granted. 

Homestuck is extremely concerned with broad systems of power and how they affect individuals–even those who hate or try to fight the system. I think the reason why so many fans get hung up on issues of “Is Dammek good/evil” as if that’s a question that matters are sort of missing the point, which is that Alternia by design breaks kid’s abilities to have healthy relationships with each other. In this case, Dammek’s slight blood advantage is all it takes. 

also re: xefros being a page of time & rapping – dave is very much into the music too? (i know others are, and dirk’s sylladex revolves around rhyming, but dave’s the only one to constantly get paired with music)

yep! all the time travel devices we’ve seen are musically themed. Dave had his Time Tables, whereas Aradia had a Music Box Time Machine.

And of course, Aradia’s land is The Land of Quartz and Melody. Time and music are pretty strongly linked in Homestuck, which makes sense! :B

Xefros Tritoh is a Page of Time. also, class roleplay is real.

I’m still too sick to record for the Joey video, so while I don’t have the time to make a full-scale analysis post on everything about Xefros right now (theres a lot) I figured I’d make two crucial things about reading his character clear:

A) Xefros’ unhealthy relationship with Dammek is the latest example yet of unhealthy Class Roleplay dynamics. If anyone remembers, I speculated weeks ago, before the game dropped, that Xefros’ relationship to the role of Butlering might well turn out to be both unhealthy for him and reflective of Classpect behavior.

As it turns out, I seem to have been correct. Specifically, Xefros is roleplaying a Knight through his unwilling assignment of the role of the Butler.

B) Xefros is a Page of Time.

Let’s explore them in order, considerably more briskly than with the Joey post. There’s more to say about Xefros, obviously, but unfortunately, I just don’t have the….

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Time

Something I have in common with Xefros, fittingly enough.

Xefros’ general lack of time to keep up with the various demands on his time–mostly Dammek’s demands on his time–is a strong focus point of his character.

And just in case we’re not super sold on it yet, Xefros does us the Time-saving  courtesy of establishing his relationship to the aspect by reinforcing Time’s longstanding relationship to music and rhythm! How nice of you, Xefros. 

Now where were we?

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Right. Xefros has a lot on his plate: Band practice, revolutionary lectures, butler practice, and only the occasional reverie about getting to spend time on something Xefros himself finds interesting.

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And most of that time is lost in various forms of service to Dammek. Serve is,
at this point, basically inarguably the key verb for the Knight/Page class pair–combining connotations of providing service/help, dealing defeats/ownage/sick burns, and literally serving/giving items to others, as the verb counterparts to Thieves/Rogues’ ‘Steal/Take’. 

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So Xefros’ unhealthy position of servitude to Dammek is explicitly linked to his unwanted, forced assignment of the role of Butler–which in Homestuck terms loosely correlates to the role of Knight. Dave’s biggest contribution to his session is to serve all his friends time or provide them with resources through the use of his time, for example. 

But where doing so comes naturally to Dave, for Xefros it is an effort to play the role. Xefros does not find butlering fulfilling, and he’s not particularly good at it, either–it’s not where his natural talents shine. 

This is a common thread with most kinds of class roleplay–it usually doesn’t work out well for a player character to pretend to be something they’re not. 

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Perhaps particularly so when the role the character is playing encourages them to adopt the opposite class alignment, as when an ACTIVE player is conditioned into acting PASSIVELY. This line comes from Xefros’ FLARP book, by the way, which has a bunch of Classpect references. Fitting, since FLARP is what introduces us to the concept of Class Roleplay in Homestuck proper.

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Because this line kind of has to be taken in context. The truth is, Xefros would rather be playing a game.  And it’s in the context of that game, along with Xefros’ childhood and natural effect on others, that we’ll find references to his true classpect, buried under the burden of the imposed Butler role. 

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Pages, like Knights, are linked to the image of the Butler–but not as players who fill the role themselves. Rather, Pages seem to have a talent for inspiring other players to act as Butlers for them. Or to close the ouroboros loop of classpecting: To get others to act as their Knights.

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Xefros’ affinity for Arena Stickball immediately strikes this echo, as one of the things Xefros immediately remembers is having his Brawler defending him–
a relationship echoed by Tavros’ affinity for using animals as his warriors, and Jake’s summoning of a splinter of Dirk to protect him from Aranea. 

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Xefros’ demeanor quickly turns around an overwhelmed and exhausted Joey, making her quickly grow concerned and then adamant about helping him in return for his own kindness. 

This ability of Pages to inspire others around them to want to help them is part of the reason why I think it’s likely Dammek’s concern for him is at least somewhat genuine–though that’s by no means the same as healthy. Vriska’s concern for Tavros was genuine, too, lest we forget.

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And Xefros is prone to both Giving things to others and trying to make others happy in ways that ultimately turn out to benefit him. This comes through clearest with Sloth Dad, whom Xefros would give gifts or receive food from whilst always benefiting from the arrangement in some way. 

Xefros’ first cuebat, his physical strength, and open passage from his house are all things achieved by giving. But past the key verbs, Xefros’ clearest indication for both his class of Page and his aspect of Time come through in his relationship to his ancestral figure: Xultan Matzos. 

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Xefros’ text logs on Xultan are drowning in both references to Time and a profound personal admiration. He likens Xefros to a figure from history, imagines convoluted alt-timeline crossovers featuring various versions of Xultan, fantasizes about having the kind of psychic power Xultan had, and more. 

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He also admits to fantasizing about just imagining Xultan standing around, believing in him. This fits Xultan squarely into the archetype of the Pages’ imaginary friend, a slot filled by Rufioh for Tavros, and Brain Ghost Dirk for Jake. 

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Perhaps most telling, however, is his imitation of Xultan–a copycat approach to self-improvement that Xefros credits with at least occasional success! This has common ground with Homestuck’s Pages too, as Tavros ultimately finds narrative success as he fully embodies his imitation of the role of Peter Pan. 

Jake English also famously copies female action movie tropes in both fashion choices and his eventual fall into the damsel in distress trope, whereby it’s his imagination and faith that Dirk can save him that saves the day. 

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And finally, Xefros’ copying habit and Page role are referenced in a two-for-one reference combo, through Joey’s persistent early habit of calling him Xerox. 

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In the 90′s, Xerox (Logo pictured above) was the colloquial term for both a product and the company that produced it. Particularly, Xerox was a popular brand of photocopier, meaning a machine designed to copy text and images onto a blank Page. 

I haven’t come close to covering half of what I want to say about Xefros, but I hope this will at least give the rest of the fandom an idea of how he’s set up. 
Just for the record, I don’t think the X on Pa’s globe was pointing at Dammek. 

Particularly given Pa’s own status as a Page, Joey’s budding friednship with one puts us in a very interesting position. How will Xefros and Joey’s personalities mesh in the long run, and is Xefros involved in whatever plans Pa seems to have devised?

Interesting questions to consider as we wait for Act 2. 


If you’d like to enable me to expand on this subject, and so bring more questions like these to light in the future, please consider throwing a couple bucks my way on Patreon. This is basically definitely my last written post for a good while, as I am going on hiatus to get my financial life in order as detailed in this post. 

I’m really overwhelmed and grateful by the support so many have shown me, and excited to take posts like the one I did on Joey and this one to Youtube, where more of the fandom can engage with classpects in an accessible way!

You can also feel free to drop by and chat about this and other interesting Hiveswap and Homestuck topics in the r/Hiveswap discord! 

Hope to see you soon, and until then–Keep Rising!

[Patreon] [Hiveswap Discord]

oh i would prefer to avoid hiveswap discussion stagnating while i’m gone so i guess you can expect a really short xefros post before i go go, besides the joey video

mostly just because Hiveswap proves that the roleplay mechanic i’ve been talking about for months now is inarguably true and makes it a lot easier to engage with classpects in general

so like hopefully people will take note of that?? pls. classpects are good

What’s your ideas on Joey’s possible class? I think she’s a likely Maid of Light. I don’t have any screenshots, but I remember her saying she’s “not [dammek’s] maid” a few times, and also her saying that she’s not “made of time”. Also, her turning on the lights in her house and turning on the power in Dammek’s hive i think can be interpreted as her “creating Light”.

I agree. I have a few reasons to add “creating Light” as a reason for Joey, and I remember the Maid reference you’re talking about. It’s still SOMEWHAT possible she’s another class–I saw one reference to destruction, but she doesn’t feel like a Prince so I’m still leaning on Maid. But she’s definitely a Light player imo.

I need to get screenshots to make a whole post about it, but my classpect thoughts on the others are:

Xefros is absolutely a Page of Time. There were a fuckload of references to him as a Page already and at least one to Time, which are most of what I’ve got to compile.

Jude is PROBABLY a Seer of Doom. All of his knowledge ends up benefiting or acting through Joey, and she makes explicit reference to being impressed he actually *Knows* his stuff, with respect to all these threats and rogue conspirators he’s predicting. Of course, its still pretty early and there wasnt anything explicit there, so it’s still somewhat up in the air.

Dammek strikes me as a Thief of Breath. Not completely sure on the Thief part–all I have to go on is the fact that he’s so driven and the occasional references to him taking Xefros’ stuff. His passion for communism/non-ownership certainly sounds like “stealing” through “freedom/disattachment” to me for his own benefit, after all. So that’s my rationale there.

But SPECIFICALLY Dammek definitely seems like a Breath player, because he’s strongly referenced as having a talent for leadership and motivating/driving people–providing direction. The fact that Xefros’ classpect matches Aradia’s–Time doesn’t hurt, as Dammek’s analogue would Tavros, the Breath player.

On top of that, it sets up a somewhat interesting inverse dynamic to the relationship we saw between Vriska/Aradia/Tavros.
Where Homestuck’s cycle of revenge began with a Maid of Time getting revenge on a Thief of Light for the abuse of a Page of Breath, Hiveswap’s plot seems to begin with a Maid of Light beginning to heal the withered sense of importance of a Page of Time at the hands of a Thief of Breath.

Not entirely sure if this reading will hold up, of course. But The Dancestors demonstrated an affinity for this kind of karmic role switching, and Scratch seems to be managing the events of this story, to an extent–just as he managed the cycle of revenge. So it wouldn’t surprise me if it pans out. 

Possible Hiveswap spoilers, so only read this after you’ve finished playing I guess, But what do you think about the fact that Dammek has a camera in Xefros’ room? Like, what the fuck?

I’ve been seeing a lot of discourse about Dammek already so I’m glad I got this ask, haha.

I mean. It’s obviously, transparently fucked up? We know it, the narrative knows it, Joey knows it and loudly screams about it.
Dammek’s treatment of Xefros isn’t on the up and up.

This, by the way, makes perfect sense to me in a way. I don’t think this means Dammek doesn’t CARE about Xefros–I’m sure, after all, that Pa cares about Jude and Joey.
But caring alone does not make healthy relationships. 

On a related note, Xefros has numerous references to being a Page–I’ll be making a post compiling those soon–and Pages have a recurring motif of getting pushed around and “helped” by friends who care but overstep boundaries. To me, Dammek seems like an extension of the trend–the Vriska to Xefros’ Tavros, or the Dirk/AR to his Jake, so to speak.

What their relationship will specifically look like and how it will grow and evolve, of course, is still an open question. Which gets to the heart of how I feel on the matter:

I’m seeing a lot of people say they HATE Dammek now or he’s TERRIBLE and PROBLEMATIC or whatever at this point, and that seems like…really really jumping the gun to me?
It plain old doesn’t make much sense to build up all this outrage at a character whose flaws we’re learning about here, BEFORE HE’S EVEN INTRODUCED. 

Yes, Dammek is transparently, indisputably being an asshole. Dammek is also one of the protagonists of this duology, who will get at least four acts to grow and develop from the point where he’s being introduced. Obviously this is going to be a character trait that Dammek will have to grapple with and overcome one way or another, because that’s what good stories do: Introduce characters with flaws and challenges, put them through conflicts, and have them overcome them.

Especially since it’s not even like Dammek is like Vriska. There is legitimately and truly no future for either Xefros or Dammek that either of them want to be a part of unless Dammek succeeds at his wild ambitions, and he’s living in a fascist totalitarian hellscape, so there’s pretty good grounds for him to be as paranoid and intense as he is. Not to mention that he’s doing that while being…you know, a damn kid? 

We’re talking about a narrative where it’s altogether likely that literal genocidal maniac TRIZZA TETHIS will be redeemed, given she’s completely and utterly doomed by the system and timeline she’s in, so that people are SO pissed at Dammek for…being KIND OF A SHITTY DOUCHE at, what, 15? is…short-sighted, frankly. 

Can’t we focus on how nice it is that Xefros and Joey’s new friendship is already helping Xefros come out of that mindset? Can’t we look forward to character growth instead of being really really angry about INTRODUCTORY CHARACTER TRAITS? 

So like yeah I think it’s good to keep in mind that Dammek and Xefros aren’t the rosy best buds fanon imagined them to be. But spurring a bunch of outrage or w.e is just going to make the fandom really insufferable to deal with when they inevitably reconcile or come to new terms of behavior later, as with Dirk and Jake. I am begging to the spirits above we can avoid that grisly fate.

But can we avoid fandom’s deadly addiction to outrage points? Alas, likely not. 

PS: Relatedly, I have never seen a guy be more friendzoned than Xefros blushing on that deercat in my goddamn life. The fact that people are apparently complaining that that was ‘hetbait’ is hilarious, because Joey was the one with all the gay coding in this game, and she did NOT look interested that way. Just thought I’d say that too while I’m here. 

Taz I was thinking that while you are right to point out the butlering stuff that Xefros has I feel that it is misguided to presume it is an actual interest of his. As far as we understand that could be what he is being groomed to be rather than an actual interest. In addition, the first song we heard by The Grubbles seems a pointed opposition to it. Just my two cents here dude.

I agree that’s the likeliest scenario! It’s why I felt it necessary to explain how Roleplay works.

It’s possible Xefros’ interest in butlering is something he can develop healthily, and if so I’d expect the game to treat him as a Knight or Page in some way. As in, those would actually just be his class.

But it’s more likely, from what I’ve seen so far, that the butlering motif is something his growth is at odds with. If that’s the case, then while the butler motif may show up to begin with–probably with some links to Knights in particular–I expect he’ll later discard it as he overcomes that struggle and grows as a character. 

It’s likely that at that point the game will also be showing us hints as to his true Class/where Xefros’ talents lie strongest.

So it could go either way currently, though I definitely think the second route is likelier.